Re: Roy Jones JR question
> Kip King wrote: > > "SuperCalo" <> wrote in message news:<bpghd2$hg2$>... > > > >>"Kip King" <> wrote in message > >>news: .com... > >> > >>>JoeyP <> wrote in message news:<>... > >>> > >>>>Lord Thanatos wrote: > >>>> > >>>>>"Robert Phillips" <> wrote in message > >>>>>news:jHwub.1416$ .com... > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>Locutus wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>You are clueless if you think Gonzalez is the LHW champ and RJJ is > >>>>>> > >> just > >> > >>>>>a > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>hostinghostinghostingle holder. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Roy Jones is not the lt.heavy champ. In fact, Jones has never won a > >>>>>>real world championship. He needs to fight Julio Gonzalez in order to > >>>>>>win a world hostinghostinghostingle. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Pie King > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>Lol!!!! Oh Come Pie, You can do better than that. There has to be > >>>> > >> atleast > >> > >>>>>one person left on this newsgroup that isn`t sick of our favorite > >>>> > >> argument. > >> > >>>>>I swear I thought I saw that dead horse move. Come on, kick it a few > >>>> > >> more > >> > >>>>>times (just for old times sake). > >>>>> > >>>>>LT > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>>Ok LT, I'll bite...Haven't seen you around in a while...Just as I have > >>>>only recently returned.. > >>>> > >>>>IMO, DM's claim to the "lineal" hostinghostinghostingle is just as bogus as any other > >>>>"lineal" hostinghostinghostingle. The lineal hostinghostinghostingles are pretty worthless because I see no > >>>>CLEAR CUT way of determining the next champ after the current one dies, > >>>>retires, or moves on up in weight. I have heard that it's the first guy > >>>>to unify the major 3 belts, I have heard it's the first fight between > >>>>the #1 and #2 guys, I have even heard, at one point, that the current > >>>>champ CHOOSES the next guy, or at least chooses who will fight for > >>>>it--remind me again when that one came up?-- > >>>> > >>>>JoeyP > >>> > >>>There are four not three major scantioning bodies the (in order of > >>>age) WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO not that it matters much. > >>> Kip > >> > >>the wBo is not a major scantioning body > >>there are 3 main scantioning bodies not 4 > > > > > > In my opinion it is. The WBO recognises the lineal lt. heavy champ. I > > read Boxing Digest not Ring. Ring was the best 'till Nat Fleischer > > died. Kip > > What does that mean? In what way does the WBO recognise the "lineal" > hostinghostinghostingle? And, once again, it is a matter of opinion of whether or not the > WBO is a major hostinghostinghostingle. > > JoeyP The WBO now recognizes the lineage that came from Virgil Hill though DM who dropped all alphabet hostinghostinghostingles except the WBO to Gonzalez. I said "in my opinion". Also in my opinion the CBZ hostinghostinghostingle means more than any sanctioning body hostinghostinghostingle: |
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Re: Roy Jones JR question
Kip King wrote: > JoeyP <> wrote in message news:<>... > >>Hey LT....Not "Mini-Pie" How about "Pie-Lite"? >>Though he and I see things close to the same logically, >>I tend to ramble on alot more while he is very defining and >>articulate in his post. >> >>Ok. Here we go. Beating the very dead horse. >> >>In the first paragraph, you put a TON of weight on the ABC hostinghostinghostingles by >>stating the first guy who gets 3 of them, is the new champion. Whether >>you know it or not, that makes those hostinghostinghostingles MUCH more than worthless. >>Let's say Byrd ends up with the hostinghostinghostingle RJJ now holds at HW. He then >>would have 2. If Lewis then retires, Byrd only has to get one more to >>become the new "champ". Since he only has to get one more, his two then >>become VERY important. After putting this responsibility on the ABC >>hostinghostinghostingles(determining the "new" champ) you then go on to say they are >>worthless. Let's go a bit further.. Let's say Lewis is stripped of his >>final ABC hostinghostinghostingle, but he continues to fight. He picks up lets say two >>more big money fights-Tyson and Jones for argument's sake. He wins >>both, then retires as the lineal champ. In the mean time, Byrd has won >>those hostinghostinghostingles(3) and is now the "unified" champ. According to you, Byrd >>then automatically becomes the new "lineal" champ the moment Lewis >>retires because of his 3 ABC hostinghostinghostingles. Is all that correct? If so, that >>puts ALOT of importance on the ABC hostinghostinghostingles and just proves how important >>they really are. >> >>Also, we have to debate what IS a "major" hostinghostinghostingle. You(and others) seem >>to think that the WBO is a "major" hostinghostinghostingle. I do not. Ring Magazine does >>not. HBO does not. The way I see it, RJJ was the first guy to unify >>all 3 major hostinghostinghostingles(WBA,WBC,IBF), including the one that Spinks held, so >>he should actually be the "new" champ. By your definition, Virgil Hill >>was never >>"Champ" as he never held 3 major hostinghostinghostingles. Also, if you humor me and >>allow that the WBO is NOT a major hostinghostinghostingle, DM never held the 3 major >>hostinghostinghostingles either. >> >>I agree with you on the HW division. Lewis is clearly the man to beat. >> But not because he beat Briggs, but because he unified all 3 major >>hostinghostinghostingles. I understand why he gave up one not to fight Ruiz. Instead of >>fighting Ruiz and keeping that hostinghostinghostingle, he fought the much more highly >>thought of(at the time) Grant. Though I still to this day believe he >>dodged Byrd and gave up that hostinghostinghostingle to keep from fighting him. Correct >>me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that about the time of the Lewis/Tyson >>fight? If so, then he gave up that hostinghostinghostingle for a big money fight. >> >>Have you ever heard the phrase "Perception is reality"? I am sure you >>have. And that is also one of the reasons RJJ is LHW "CHAMP" The >>Marlins just won the "World Series" in the MLB. Does that really make >>them the WORLD champs? The very best. How many countries were allowed >>to have a team compete to qualify for the "World Series"? Two? Yet it >>is perceived they are the "World Champs". >> >>How many "world" teams got to compete for the "world champ" in the NBA? >>Yet the Spurs are perceived as the Champs. Though it was very recently >>the NBA players did not even place at the true world championships. >> >>RJJ is perceived to be the champ at LHW because he unified the 3 major >>hostinghostinghostingles. Why DM was stripped of two of those hostinghostinghostingles I honestly don't >>know. If you have any links that points to those reasons, I honestly >>would like to read them. RJJ didn't strip DM. RJJ just did what any >>other fighter would do. He had a chance to fight for a >>vacated(stripped) hostinghostinghostingle so he did it. Hill did the same thing and I bet >>most others would also. >> >>Anyway, enjoyed yapping at ya a bit LT. I of course expect a >>reply...You know we just can't leave this alone...  >> >>JoeyP >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Lord Thanatos wrote: >> >>>Hey, Its Mini-Pie!! Hows it going Joey.. >>> >>>See it is real simple.. If the reigning Champion retires, then the first >>>fighter to achostinghostinghostingulate 3 major hostinghostinghostingles becomes the new Champion. >>> >>>The ABC`s hostinghostinghostingles are worthless because of the corrupt sanctioning bodies >>>that are behind them. They strip hostinghostinghostingles for all the wrong reasons and >>>protect the fighters that they get paid the most in sanctioning fees. >>> >>>The Heavyweight Division is the clearest example. Anyone with an ounce of >>>common sense knows that Lewis it the Champion. But the sanctioning bodies >>>have stripped some of his hostinghostinghostingles and given them to other fighters. This in >>>no way means that Lewis is not the Champion. >>> >>>The same thing happened at Lt. Heavy. DM won the hostinghostinghostingles (and the Lineal >>>Championship) in the ring. The sanctioning bodies immediately stripped 2 of >>>the major hostinghostinghostingles from him for no valid reason. Sorry, he was still the Champ >>>even if the ABC`s didn't like it. He beat the existing Champion. Who the >>>sanctioning bodies choose to give the belts to is irrelevant. DM went into >>>the ring and beat the Champion. Now he has been beaten in the Ring by >>>Gonzalez. That makes Gonzalez the new Champ. The belts are meaningless >>>because they no longer belonged to the Champion. >>> >>>In the past year, My respect for RJJ has grown tremendously. I give him >>>major accolades for stepping up against Ruiz. That was real Challenge and >>>dispelled my strongest critisms of him. Taver was great opponent and RJJ >>>beat him as well. But he still has yet to win the Championship at Lt. Heavy >>>or Heavy even though he hold hostinghostinghostingles in both. >>>RJJ can not be THE heavyweight champ by beating Ruiz because Ruiz was just a >>>hostinghostinghostingle Holder and not a Champion. >>>Same applies to Lt. Heavy. RJJ has beat all the hostinghostinghostingles Holders but he's not >>>yet faced the Champion. >>> >>>LT >>> >>> >> > > Ring Magazine is second best to Boxing Digest now. I grew up reading > The Ring and it was great. All it's champs were lineal champs. Then > Nat Fleischer died. Initially his son in law Nat Loubet took over and > it been downhill from there. At first they didn't recognize the old > Ring's champs anymore. then they started to recognise champs > but they weren't the lineal champs. The lineal flyweight champ Jose > Aguirre comes from an unbroken lineage (of linear and WBC champs) that > dates back to Miguel Canto in 1975. The Ring recognizes someone else. > The Ring put out a great record book 'till 1985. I think it's time to > bring the linear tradition of the OLD Ring back. this site helps: > > Kip > > Ring Magazine is second best to Boxing Digest now. Wow. Then I guess I should cancel my subscription because Kip has just declared Ring Mag as second best. Maybe in YOUR OPINION it is second best. That's fine. If it's ok with you Kip, may I decide which one is best for me and which one I will spend my dollars on? JoeyP |
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Re: Roy Jones JR question
> "Kip King" <> wrote in message > news: om... > > "SuperCalo" <> wrote in message > news:<bpghd2$hg2$>... > > > "Kip King" <> wrote in message > > > news: om... > > > > JoeyP <> wrote in message news:<>... > > > > > Lord Thanatos wrote: > > > > > > "Robert Phillips" <> wrote in message > > > > > > news:jHwub.1416$ .. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >>Locutus wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>>You are clueless if you think Gonzalez is the LHW champ and RJJ > is > just > > > > > >> > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > >>>hostinghostinghostingle holder. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>Roy Jones is not the lt.heavy champ. In fact, Jones has never won > a > > > > > >>real world championship. He needs to fight Julio Gonzalez in > order to > > > > > >>win a world hostinghostinghostingle. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>Pie King > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol!!!! Oh Come Pie, You can do better than that. There has to be > atleast > > > > > > one person left on this newsgroup that isn`t sick of our favorite > argument. > > > > > > I swear I thought I saw that dead horse move. Come on, kick it a > few > more > > > > > > times (just for old times sake). > > > > > > > > > > > > LT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok LT, I'll bite...Haven't seen you around in a while...Just as I > have > > > > > only recently returned.. > > > > > > > > > > IMO, DM's claim to the "lineal" hostinghostinghostingle is just as bogus as any other > > > > > "lineal" hostinghostinghostingle. The lineal hostinghostinghostingles are pretty worthless because I > see no > > > > > CLEAR CUT way of determining the next champ after the current one > dies, > > > > > retires, or moves on up in weight. I have heard that it's the first > guy > > > > > to unify the major 3 belts, I have heard it's the first fight > between > > > > > the #1 and #2 guys, I have even heard, at one point, that the > current > > > > > champ CHOOSES the next guy, or at least chooses who will fight for > > > > > it--remind me again when that one came up?-- > > > > > > > > > > JoeyP > > > > > > > > There are four not three major scantioning bodies the (in order of > > > > age) WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO not that it matters much. > > > > Kip > > > > > > the wBo is not a major scantioning body > > > there are 3 main scantioning bodies not 4 > > > > In my opinion it is. The WBO recognises the lineal lt. heavy champ. I > > read Boxing Digest not Ring. Ring was the best 'till Nat Fleischer > > died. Kip > > you are enhostinghostinghostingled to your personal opinion, i respect you for that my friend, > however I prefer to stick to the facts and they are that there are 3 main > scantioning bodies, the wBo is not one of them and never has been. > as for what boxing magazine you read thats irrelevent I can rember when there was only the WBA, then the WBA and WBC for years. In any case they're all irrelevant. Kip |
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Re: Roy Jones JR question
> "Kip King" <> wrote in message > news: om... > > "SuperCalo" <> wrote in message > news:<bpghd2$hg2$>... > > > "Kip King" <> wrote in message > > > news: om... > > > > JoeyP <> wrote in message news:<>... > > > > > Lord Thanatos wrote: > > > > > > "Robert Phillips" <> wrote in message > > > > > > news:jHwub.1416$ .. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >>Locutus wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>>You are clueless if you think Gonzalez is the LHW champ and RJJ > is > just > > > > > >> > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > >>>hostinghostinghostingle holder. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>Roy Jones is not the lt.heavy champ. In fact, Jones has never won > a > > > > > >>real world championship. He needs to fight Julio Gonzalez in > order to > > > > > >>win a world hostinghostinghostingle. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>Pie King > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol!!!! Oh Come Pie, You can do better than that. There has to be > atleast > > > > > > one person left on this newsgroup that isn`t sick of our favorite > argument. > > > > > > I swear I thought I saw that dead horse move. Come on, kick it a > few > more > > > > > > times (just for old times sake). > > > > > > > > > > > > LT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok LT, I'll bite...Haven't seen you around in a while...Just as I > have > > > > > only recently returned.. > > > > > > > > > > IMO, DM's claim to the "lineal" hostinghostinghostingle is just as bogus as any other > > > > > "lineal" hostinghostinghostingle. The lineal hostinghostinghostingles are pretty worthless because I > see no > > > > > CLEAR CUT way of determining the next champ after the current one > dies, > > > > > retires, or moves on up in weight. I have heard that it's the first > guy > > > > > to unify the major 3 belts, I have heard it's the first fight > between > > > > > the #1 and #2 guys, I have even heard, at one point, that the > current > > > > > champ CHOOSES the next guy, or at least chooses who will fight for > > > > > it--remind me again when that one came up?-- > > > > > > > > > > JoeyP > > > > > > > > There are four not three major scantioning bodies the (in order of > > > > age) WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO not that it matters much. > > > > Kip > > > > > > the wBo is not a major scantioning body > > > there are 3 main scantioning bodies not 4 > > > > In my opinion it is. The WBO recognises the lineal lt. heavy champ. I > > read Boxing Digest not Ring. Ring was the best 'till Nat Fleischer > > died. Kip > > you are enhostinghostinghostingled to your personal opinion, i respect you for that my friend, > however I prefer to stick to the facts and they are that there are 3 main > scantioning bodies, the wBo is not one of them and never has been. > as for what boxing magazine you read thats irrelevent I remember when there was only the WBA, then the WBA and WBC for a long time. Anyway they're all irrelevant. Kip |
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Re: Roy Jones JR question
> JoeyP wrote: > > > > > > Kip King wrote: > > >> In my opinion it is. The WBO recognises the lineal lt. heavy champ. > > > > What does that mean? In what way does the WBO recognise the "lineal" > > hostinghostinghostingle? > > > I think he's trying to say, the WBO has as their champion the guy who > happens to be the recognized "lineal" champion, Julio Gonzalez. To Kip > King, that legitimizes the WBO as being the only sanctioning body to get > it right (according to Kip's theory that only lineal champs are true > champions). I'm not sure how he gets around the fact that the WBO does > not recognize Lennox Lewis as their champion, or that they don't > recognize other "lineal" champs in other weight clhostinghostinghostinges, whoever the > heck they are. But since, like most lineal loyalists, he only cares > about the lt.heavy and heavyweight lineal hostinghostinghostingles but not lineal hostinghostinghostingles > in other weight clhostinghostinghostinges, that is evidently good enough for him to decide > that the WBO is legitimate. > > > Pie Actually, I think all sanctionings bodies are corrupt, irrelevant and self appointed. Kip |
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Re: Roy Jones JR question
> JoeyP wrote: > > > > In the first paragraph, you put a TON of weight on the ABC hostinghostinghostingles by > > stating the first guy who gets 3 of them, is the new champion. Whether > > you know it or not, that makes those hostinghostinghostingles MUCH more than worthless. > > > That gaping hole in the linear logic never fails to amuse me. They> constantly criticize the alphabets, talk about how corrupt they are, > talk about how their hostinghostinghostingles are bought and sold, but when it's time to > go line up a linear hostinghostinghostingle, who do they run to? Whose decisions do they > support? The alphabets'. Hysterical. > > > In the mean time, Byrd has won > > those hostinghostinghostingles(3) and is now the "unified" champ. According to you, Byrd > > then automatically becomes the new "lineal" champ the moment Lewis > > retires because of his 3 ABC hostinghostinghostingles. Is all that correct? If so, that > > puts ALOT of importance on the ABC hostinghostinghostingles and just proves how important > > they really are. > > > > Also, we have to debate what IS a "major" hostinghostinghostingle. You(and others) seem > > to think that the WBO is a "major" hostinghostinghostingle. I do not. Ring Magazine does > > not. HBO does not. > > > I still consider them to be in a sort of limbo, where some of their > champs are legitimate, and some simply aren't. The WBO doesn't have the > track record, IMO, where all of their champs across the board deserve to > be said to have won a "world hostinghostinghostingle." I'm willing to consider the > Klitschkos or Joe Calzaghe or Chris Eubank (at 168) to be world champs > or former champs, but I'm not really interested in calling Francisco > Damiani or Felix Sturm world champs. That's probably a blatant double > standard and completely hypocritical, but that's the danger we run into > whenever we subscribe completely to any particular system - sooner or > later, adhering so stubbornly to one philosophy inevitably causes us to > come up against a scenario that we feel obligated to defend, but no > matter how we try, we just can't defend reasonably (like calling Julio > Gonzalez "the world champion"). > > > RJJ is perceived to be the champ at LHW because he unified the 3 major > > hostinghostinghostingles. Why DM was stripped of two of those hostinghostinghostingles I honestly don't > > know. If you have any links that points to those reasons, I honestly > > would like to read them. > > > Essentially, the WBA wanted him to choose between their belt and the > WBO's, so he chose the WBO and allowed the WBA to strip him. The IBF > stripped him for refusing to fight William Guthrie (the mandatory > contender) within a month after winning the IBF hostinghostinghostingle from Virgil Hill, > as he was required to do. > > > Pie You're incorrect. The sanctioning bodies are not required at all to decide a lineal hostinghostinghostingle. Kip |
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Re: Roy Jones JR question
Quip King wrote: > Robert Phillips <> wrote in message news:<GFPub.13564$ >... > >>JoeyP wrote: >> >> >> >>>In the first paragraph, you put a TON of weight on the ABC hostinghostinghostingles by >>>stating the first guy who gets 3 of them, is the new champion. Whether >>>you know it or not, that makes those hostinghostinghostingles MUCH more than worthless. >> >> >>That gaping hole in the linear logic never fails to amuse me. They>>constantly criticize the alphabets, talk about how corrupt they are, >>talk about how their hostinghostinghostingles are bought and sold, but when it's time to >>go line up a linear hostinghostinghostingle, who do they run to? Whose decisions do they >>support? The alphabets'. Hysterical. >> >> >>>In the mean time, Byrd has won >>>those hostinghostinghostingles(3) and is now the "unified" champ. According to you, Byrd >>>then automatically becomes the new "lineal" champ the moment Lewis >>>retires because of his 3 ABC hostinghostinghostingles. Is all that correct? If so, that >>>puts ALOT of importance on the ABC hostinghostinghostingles and just proves how important >>>they really are. >>> >>>Also, we have to debate what IS a "major" hostinghostinghostingle. You(and others) seem >>>to think that the WBO is a "major" hostinghostinghostingle. I do not. Ring Magazine does >>>not. HBO does not. >> >> >>I still consider them to be in a sort of limbo, where some of their >>champs are legitimate, and some simply aren't. The WBO doesn't have the >>track record, IMO, where all of their champs across the board deserve to >>be said to have won a "world hostinghostinghostingle." I'm willing to consider the >>Klitschkos or Joe Calzaghe or Chris Eubank (at 168) to be world champs >>or former champs, but I'm not really interested in calling Francisco >>Damiani or Felix Sturm world champs. That's probably a blatant double >>standard and completely hypocritical, but that's the danger we run into >>whenever we subscribe completely to any particular system - sooner or >>later, adhering so stubbornly to one philosophy inevitably causes us to >>come up against a scenario that we feel obligated to defend, but no >>matter how we try, we just can't defend reasonably (like calling Julio >>Gonzalez "the world champion"). >> >> >>>RJJ is perceived to be the champ at LHW because he unified the 3 major >>>hostinghostinghostingles. Why DM was stripped of two of those hostinghostinghostingles I honestly don't >>>know. If you have any links that points to those reasons, I honestly >>>would like to read them. >> >> >>Essentially, the WBA wanted him to choose between their belt and the >>WBO's, so he chose the WBO and allowed the WBA to strip him. The IBF >>stripped him for refusing to fight William Guthrie (the mandatory >>contender) within a month after winning the IBF hostinghostinghostingle from Virgil Hill, >>as he was required to do. >> >> >>Pie > > > You're incorrect. The sanctioning bodies are not required at all to > decide a lineal hostinghostinghostingle. > Kip Really Kip? This ought to be good. You and my good friend LT. are big into the idea of the "lineal" champ. LT. says that a vacant "lineal" champ can be replaced by owning 3 of 4 "major" belts. How do you say the "lineal" champ is replaced? That is one of my arguments right there in a nut shell. Even two big believers in the "lineal" garbage can't agree how a retiring, dead, or moving up in weight champ is replaced. That being the case, how in the hell do you suppose nonbelievers to buy into it? JoeyP |
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Re: Roy Jones JR question
JoeyP wrote: >> You're incorrect. The sanctioning bodies are not required at all to >> decide a lineal hostinghostinghostingle. > Really Kip? This ought to be good. You and my good friend LT. are big > into the idea of the "lineal" champ. LT. says that a vacant "lineal" > champ can be replaced by owning 3 of 4 "major" belts. How do you say > the "lineal" champ is replaced? That is one of my arguments right there > in a nut shell. Even two big believers in the "lineal" garbage can't > agree how a retiring, dead, or moving up in weight champ is replaced. > That being the case, how in the hell do you suppose nonbelievers to buy > into it? Egads. Kip King can't even keep his story straight, or at least can't explain it coherently. He's said, repeatedly, that if a lineal champ retires, dies, or goes to another weight clhostinghostinghosting, the guy who wins the very next alphabet hostinghostinghostingle fight becomes the new lineal champ, whether it's a challenger beating a reigning champ, a guy winning a vacant hostinghostinghostingle, or a champion making a defense. Now he says that the sanctioning bodies aren't required at all. Hysterical. Pie |
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Re: Roy Jones JR question
JoeyP <> wrote in message news:<>...
> Kip King wrote: > > JoeyP <> wrote in message news:<>... > > > >>Hey LT....Not "Mini-Pie" How about "Pie-Lite"? > >>Though he and I see things close to the same logically, > >>I tend to ramble on alot more while he is very defining and > >>articulate in his post. > >> > >>Ok. Here we go. Beating the very dead horse. > >> > >>In the first paragraph, you put a TON of weight on the ABC hostinghostinghostingles by > >>stating the first guy who gets 3 of them, is the new champion. Whether > >>you know it or not, that makes those hostinghostinghostingles MUCH more than worthless. > >>Let's say Byrd ends up with the hostinghostinghostingle RJJ now holds at HW. He then > >>would have 2. If Lewis then retires, Byrd only has to get one more to > >>become the new "champ". Since he only has to get one more, his two then > >>become VERY important. After putting this responsibility on the ABC > >>hostinghostinghostingles(determining the "new" champ) you then go on to say they are > >>worthless. Let's go a bit further.. Let's say Lewis is stripped of his > >>final ABC hostinghostinghostingle, but he continues to fight. He picks up lets say two > >>more big money fights-Tyson and Jones for argument's sake. He wins > >>both, then retires as the lineal champ. In the mean time, Byrd has won > >>those hostinghostinghostingles(3) and is now the "unified" champ. According to you, Byrd > >>then automatically becomes the new "lineal" champ the moment Lewis > >>retires because of his 3 ABC hostinghostinghostingles. Is all that correct? If so, that > >>puts ALOT of importance on the ABC hostinghostinghostingles and just proves how important > >>they really are. > >> > >>Also, we have to debate what IS a "major" hostinghostinghostingle. You(and others) seem > >>to think that the WBO is a "major" hostinghostinghostingle. I do not. Ring Magazine does > >>not. HBO does not. The way I see it, RJJ was the first guy to unify > >>all 3 major hostinghostinghostingles(WBA,WBC,IBF), including the one that Spinks held, so > >>he should actually be the "new" champ. By your definition, Virgil Hill > >>was never > >>"Champ" as he never held 3 major hostinghostinghostingles. Also, if you humor me and > >>allow that the WBO is NOT a major hostinghostinghostingle, DM never held the 3 major > >>hostinghostinghostingles either. > >> > >>I agree with you on the HW division. Lewis is clearly the man to beat. > >> But not because he beat Briggs, but because he unified all 3 major > >>hostinghostinghostingles. I understand why he gave up one not to fight Ruiz. Instead of > >>fighting Ruiz and keeping that hostinghostinghostingle, he fought the much more highly > >>thought of(at the time) Grant. Though I still to this day believe he > >>dodged Byrd and gave up that hostinghostinghostingle to keep from fighting him. Correct > >>me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that about the time of the Lewis/Tyson > >>fight? If so, then he gave up that hostinghostinghostingle for a big money fight. > >> > >>Have you ever heard the phrase "Perception is reality"? I am sure you > >>have. And that is also one of the reasons RJJ is LHW "CHAMP" The > >>Marlins just won the "World Series" in the MLB. Does that really make > >>them the WORLD champs? The very best. How many countries were allowed > >>to have a team compete to qualify for the "World Series"? Two? Yet it > >>is perceived they are the "World Champs". > >> > >>How many "world" teams got to compete for the "world champ" in the NBA? > >>Yet the Spurs are perceived as the Champs. Though it was very recently > >>the NBA players did not even place at the true world championships. > >> > >>RJJ is perceived to be the champ at LHW because he unified the 3 major > >>hostinghostinghostingles. Why DM was stripped of two of those hostinghostinghostingles I honestly don't > >>know. If you have any links that points to those reasons, I honestly > >>would like to read them. RJJ didn't strip DM. RJJ just did what any > >>other fighter would do. He had a chance to fight for a > >>vacated(stripped) hostinghostinghostingle so he did it. Hill did the same thing and I bet > >>most others would also. > >> > >>Anyway, enjoyed yapping at ya a bit LT. I of course expect a > >>reply...You know we just can't leave this alone... > >> > >>JoeyP > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Lord Thanatos wrote: > >> > >>>Hey, Its Mini-Pie!! Hows it going Joey.. > >>> > >>>See it is real simple.. If the reigning Champion retires, then the first > >>>fighter to achostinghostinghostingulate 3 major hostinghostinghostingles becomes the new Champion. > >>> > >>>The ABC`s hostinghostinghostingles are worthless because of the corrupt sanctioning bodies > >>>that are behind them. They strip hostinghostinghostingles for all the wrong reasons and > >>>protect the fighters that they get paid the most in sanctioning fees. > >>> > >>>The Heavyweight Division is the clearest example. Anyone with an ounce of > >>>common sense knows that Lewis it the Champion. But the sanctioning bodies > >>>have stripped some of his hostinghostinghostingles and given them to other fighters. This in > >>>no way means that Lewis is not the Champion. > >>> > >>>The same thing happened at Lt. Heavy. DM won the hostinghostinghostingles (and the Lineal > >>>Championship) in the ring. The sanctioning bodies immediately stripped 2 of > >>>the major hostinghostinghostingles from him for no valid reason. Sorry, he was still the Champ > >>>even if the ABC`s didn't like it. He beat the existing Champion. Who the > >>>sanctioning bodies choose to give the belts to is irrelevant. DM went into > >>>the ring and beat the Champion. Now he has been beaten in the Ring by > >>>Gonzalez. That makes Gonzalez the new Champ. The belts are meaningless > >>>because they no longer belonged to the Champion. > >>> > >>>In the past year, My respect for RJJ has grown tremendously. I give him > >>>major accolades for stepping up against Ruiz. That was real Challenge and > >>>dispelled my strongest critisms of him. Taver was great opponent and RJJ > >>>beat him as well. But he still has yet to win the Championship at Lt. Heavy > >>>or Heavy even though he hold hostinghostinghostingles in both. > >>>RJJ can not be THE heavyweight champ by beating Ruiz because Ruiz was just a > >>>hostinghostinghostingle Holder and not a Champion. > >>>Same applies to Lt. Heavy. RJJ has beat all the hostinghostinghostingles Holders but he's not > >>>yet faced the Champion. > >>> > >>>LT > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > Ring Magazine is second best to Boxing Digest now. I grew up reading > > The Ring and it was great. All it's champs were lineal champs. Then > > Nat Fleischer died. Initially his son in law Nat Loubet took over and > > it been downhill from there. At first they didn't recognize the old > > Ring's champs anymore. then they started to recognise champs > > but they weren't the lineal champs. The lineal flyweight champ Jose > > Aguirre comes from an unbroken lineage (of linear and WBC champs) that > > dates back to Miguel Canto in 1975. The Ring recognizes someone else. > > The Ring put out a great record book 'till 1985. I think it's time to > > bring the linear tradition of the OLD Ring back. this site helps: > > > > Kip > > > > > Ring Magazine is second best to Boxing Digest now. > > Wow. Then I guess I should cancel my subscription because Kip has just > declared Ring Mag as second best. Maybe in YOUR OPINION it is second > best. That's fine. If it's ok with you Kip, may I decide which one is > best for me and which one I will spend my dollars on? > > JoeyP That's okay. Ring is a pale imitation of what it once was under Nat Fleischer though. Kip |
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