Various Topics on Cadillac

..eSpareBedro..

<buydomestic@usa.com> wrote in message
news:dff9cde3-d3e9-47e3-8ff5-f81d67e3aa26@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> GM employs 142,000+ people in the United States.
> Toyota employs 36,632 people in the United States.
>
> The sources:
> http://www.gm.com/corporate/about/gl...merica/usa.jsp
> http://www.toyota.com/about/our_busi...mployment.html
>
> Not only that, but the Toyota jobs are basically just lower paying
> blue collar jobs, where as GM has 50,000 engineers working over here.
> Toyota and other import car companies have brainwashed Americans into
> thinking that buying their car is just as good or better for the
> American economy than buying from the Big Three, because their car is
> ***embled over here, but that is baloney. My friends...when we buy
> our cars from GM, Ford, or Chrysler, the money stays over here.
> Otherwise, it just goes down the drain.


Sometimes when you own an American car, other money goes down the drain,
like your own income. My first two cars were Fords, and they were broken so
often that it affected my ability to get to work. I'll stick with cars that
continue to operate dependably, and don't have stupid problems when they're
still "young". Toyota, in other words.

You will now point out that no car is without problems. Don't bother. That's
obvious, but does nothing to support your opinion.

..w.. ..wlows..

<Zomby-Woof@cox.net> wrote in message
>>
> But that is all past-tense. Compare a Toyota model offering to a
> comparable model from any of the big-three and there is no cost
> savings in purchase price. However, where savings may come into play
> is in overall "lifetime" ownership costs.
>
> For a long time the Japanese dumped a lot of their products in our
> marketplace and the average American consumer buys based on purchase
> cost. Do you think that Wal-Mart shoppers give any consideration to
> the fact that the products they are purchasing come from China and
> have put American workers out of jobs?

Correct on the past tense. Why should they sell their cars for less when
people (be it right or wrong) as willing to pay more for them. Right now,
Hyundai wants to build a customer base and they sell good cars for a lot
less. Toyota and Honda have good reputations as perceived by the customer
so they have no reason to price cut. Frankly, unless I had a cost analysis
of both I can't say if the cars cost more of less to build or if the quality
of some material are any better.


>
> When the American factory worker looses his or her job they cannot buy
> the products made by other factory workers which of course leads to
> those workers loosing their jobs as well. All-in-all you end up with
> a toilet spiral with everything going down the ****ter and nobody
> having the monies to buy goods & services. The more the American
> worker/consumer turns to imported products because of their price, the
> more they are putting their own job at risk.

The perception of a good deal is what keeps some companies in business.
People actually think they are saving money shopping at big box stores but
the local merchants often sell identical products for the same or even less
and have a selection of items the big box stores won't bother with. Price
is the driving factor and as consumers, we want to save money no matter how
much it costs to do so.


> costs are simply based onto the consumer. Many people just don't seem
> to understand that business do not pay taxes, they collect them. Any
> tax burden is built into the products & services they sell.

Don't get me started. Tax the homeowner and they scream at the town
meeting. P*** those same taxes on to business and no one cares. Or the town
wants a project done and our leaders say not to worry, the state is paying
for it. There are many incredibly stupid people in this country that have no
idea who pays for what.

..n

Say it isn't true Zomby! I keep hearing that Obama and Clinton and to a
tiny bit lesser degree McCain that the "Government" will pay for everything!

I used to be a heavy construction estimator/engineer before I went to work
for the government!! I always used about 150% of base wage to cover workers
comp, OH, taxes, SSA, FICA, union fringes etc to figure labor cost - this
was in the 60's! I am sure with the **** added to the employer the cost is
more now. By the way I think Toyota dealer shop rate is about 105/hr, here
but haven't paid attention to it recently.

Ron in Ca

..v.. ..

<Zomby-Woof@cox.net> wrote in message
news1j034ljsceio38s8jjp3l4dq469929p7k@4ax.com...

> Compare a Toyota model offering to a
> comparable model from any of the big-three and there is no cost
> savings in purchase price. However, where savings may come into
> play is in overall "lifetime" ownership costs.

Reliability and engineering are key factors for me. It's hard to put a
price on knowing that (1) each time you get in your car it will perform as
expected, and (2) you won't spend hours out of your day in car repair mode.

In the early 80s, I bought my last American-branded car. I lived in Detroit
and had to drive to my clients' offices on occasion, many of them in the
auto industry. At the time, Japanese cars had earned a reputation for
better reliability, but I thought I would give the US car companies a chance
to catch up before buying foreign. To my amazement, they never did.

When I bought my first Japanese-made car in the late 80s (1987 Acura Legend
Coupe), it was already quite common to see a variety of foreign cars in the
employee parking lots of auto-related companies.

..w.. ..wlows..

"David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> At the time, Japanese cars had earned a reputation for better
> reliability, but I thought I would give the US car companies a chance to
> catch up before buying foreign. To my amazement, they never did.

Sure they did, in the early 90's.

..v.. ..

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:Wu%Xj.3876$ah4.1188@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> "David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>
>> At the time, Japanese cars had earned a reputation for better
>> reliability, but I thought I would give the US car companies a chance to
>> catch up before buying foreign. To my amazement, they never did.
>
> Sure they did, in the early 90's.

The US car companies "caught up" in the sense that they narrowed the gap
substantially, but never equalled the leading Japanese companies in
reliability. And then, the Japanese car companies continued to improve and
leave the US companies in the dust once again. Keep in mind we're talking
purely about reliability here. IMO, the US companies never really "caught
up" when it comes to ergonomics, fuel efficiency, and overall customer
satisfaction.

.. ..ig..

"David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:69brgbF31l6f3U1@mid.individual.net...
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
> news:Wu%Xj.3876$ah4.1188@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> "David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> At the time, Japanese cars had earned a reputation for better
>>> reliability, but I thought I would give the US car companies a chance to
>>> catch up before buying foreign. To my amazement, they never did.
>>
>> Sure they did, in the early 90's.
>
> The US car companies "caught up" in the sense that they narrowed the gap
> substantially, but never equalled the leading Japanese companies in
> reliability. And then, the Japanese car companies continued to improve
> and leave the US companies in the dust once again. Keep in mind we're
> talking purely about reliability here.
<snip>

Is that why Toyota recalls more vehicles every year then all other auto
makers? That's definitely "reliability".

..eSpareBedro..

"80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Vt6dnXfpYNnjS63VnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> "David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:69brgbF31l6f3U1@mid.individual.net...
>> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
>> news:Wu%Xj.3876$ah4.1188@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>>
>>> "David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> At the time, Japanese cars had earned a reputation for better
>>>> reliability, but I thought I would give the US car companies a chance
>>>> to catch up before buying foreign. To my amazement, they never did.
>>>
>>> Sure they did, in the early 90's.
>>
>> The US car companies "caught up" in the sense that they narrowed the gap
>> substantially, but never equalled the leading Japanese companies in
>> reliability. And then, the Japanese car companies continued to improve
>> and leave the US companies in the dust once again. Keep in mind we're
>> talking purely about reliability here.
> <snip>
>
> Is that why Toyota recalls more vehicles every year then all other auto
> makers? That's definitely "reliability".



Uh oh. Logic bomb. Can you spot it, before someone urinates on your face?

..w.. ..wlows..

"80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> <snip>
>
> Is that why Toyota recalls more vehicles every year then all other auto
> makers? That's definitely "reliability".
>

Recalls more or has more recalls? There is a difference.

..v.. ..

"80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Vt6dnXfpYNnjS63VnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> "David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:69brgbF31l6f3U1@mid.individual.net...
>> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
>> news:Wu%Xj.3876$ah4.1188@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>>
>>> "David Z" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> At the time, Japanese cars had earned a reputation for better
>>>> reliability, but I thought I would give the US car companies a chance
>>>> to catch up before buying foreign. To my amazement, they never did.
>>>
>>> Sure they did, in the early 90's.
>>
>> The US car companies "caught up" in the sense that they narrowed the gap
>> substantially, but never equalled the leading Japanese companies in
>> reliability. And then, the Japanese car companies continued to improve
>> and leave the US companies in the dust once again. Keep in mind we're
>> talking purely about reliability here.
> <snip>
>
> Is that why Toyota recalls more vehicles every year then all other auto
> makers? That's definitely "reliability".

Surely you must be aware that Lexus has won JD Powers reliability survey for
something like 12 of the last 12 years. Also, Comsumer Reports' ratings
confirm and validate JD Power's rankings. If Lexus' reliability record
doesn't convince you, nothing will.

That said, there are some recent signs that the shine from that record is
dimming. Even so, Lexus remains the undisputed king of reliability for now.