Various Topics on HDD

..Ta.. ..mage.c..

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> Previously ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
> > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> Previously ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
> >> > Are there free programs like SpinRite that does well to do DEEP disk
> >> > checking/testings on external hard disk drives like Maxtor's USB (160
> >> > GB)?

> >> SpinRite is outdated enough, that it really just does a conventional
> >> surface scan these days. ONly the disk itself can do more via SMART.

> > Interesting.


> >> > On two computers at work, I had it had it showed delay write
> >> > errors. Then, Windows lose connections and I have to repower off and on
> >> > to access the HDD again. I also tried different power and USB cables
> >> > since many people use the same HDD. Also, it is not heat beause
> >> > sometimes I get this problem after a few minutes after powering on from
> >> > room temperature (not warm either).

> >> > Chkdsk /f /r did not report anything. I don't think it does testing
> >> > deep. Are there any tools that will do? I am trying HD Tune v2.52, but I
> >> > don't think that's enough. I need something like SpinRite, but it done
> >> > via DOS and doesn't do USB connections.

> >> > Thank you in advance.

> >> There is only one option that works and does more than a very
> >> simple scan for defective sectors: Remove the disk, connect it
> >> directly to an (S)ATA bus and do a long SMART selftest.
> >> Look at the SMART attributes and the SMART error log, before and
> >> after the test. Unfortunately this is impossible over USB.

> > How difficult is it to remove the disk portion? It is one of those
> > Maxtor's OneTouch Family? It is one of these: http://tinyurl.com/yc2xgp
> > or
> > http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/Ma...Touch%20Family
> > ... I think it is about three years old? I guess it can be opened since
> > its warranty is over.

> No idea. I never bought one of these because of their _very_ bad
> reputation for failing often. Usually it is not difficult.

Yeah, I see a lot of them failing at my workplace. Looks like the one I
have is the newest victim. Do all Maxtor HDDs fail this easily or just
general external HDDs including the ones with enclosures for custom
HDDs?
--
[Laser pulsing] "Bah. It's as easy as crushing an ant! You know, the..." [grunting] "Wh-wh-whoa! Hey, take my wallet and leave me alone!" --Mr. Burns from The Simpsons (Fraudcast News; FABF16/FABF18 episode)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

....

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:4ustfuF19nrn9U2@mid.individual.net
> Previously mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:
> > ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
> > > Are there free programs like SpinRite that does well to do DEEP disk
> > > checking/testings on external hard disk drives like Maxtor's USB (160
> > > GB)? On two computers at work, I had it had it showed delay write
> > > errors. Then, Windows lose connections and I have to repower off and on
> > > to access the HDD again. I also tried different power and USB cables
> > > since many people use the same HDD. Also, it is not heat beause
> > > sometimes I get this problem after a few minutes after powering on from
> > > room temperature (not warm either).
> > >
> > > Chkdsk /f /r did not report anything. I don't think it does testing
> > > deep. Are there any tools that will do? I am trying HD Tune v2.52, but I
> > > don't think that's enough. I need something like SpinRite, but it done
> > > via DOS and doesn't do USB connections.
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance.

> > Check out seagate seatools online. See if that does what you want.

> It does not.

You don't even know what 'he wants'.

> I checked recently

And how exactly did you check?

> because someone claimed these tools could do SMART over USB.

He doesn't want to.

> They can not.

That's what you say. Your word against theirs.

>
> Arno

.... ..gn..

Previously ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Previously ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
[...]
>> > How difficult is it to remove the disk portion? It is one of those
>> > Maxtor's OneTouch Family? It is one of these: http://tinyurl.com/yc2xgp
>> > or
>> > http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/Ma...Touch%20Family
>> > ... I think it is about three years old? I guess it can be opened since
>> > its warranty is over.

>> No idea. I never bought one of these because of their _very_ bad
>> reputation for failing often. Usually it is not difficult.

> Yeah, I see a lot of them failing at my workplace. Looks like the one I
> have is the newest victim. Do all Maxtor HDDs fail this easily or just
> general external HDDs including the ones with enclosures for custom
> HDDs?

Maxtor HDDs are reliable if cooled well. For some reason the people
designing these enclosures at Maxtor do not know that or do not care
and the disks run hot and die early. It is really a systematic poblem.

I see two options: Either gross incompetence or (criminal) intent
with the idea that people will buy a new one possibly from Maxtor
if the old one fails.

Either way: Stay away from Maxtor external drives. They are known to
be bad. BTW, others are not that much better. The only reliable
solution is to ***emble one your self and either use a disk that needs
little cooling (I made good experiences with Samsung, but only for low
to moderate loads. 2.5" drives generally need a lot less cooling than
3.5" ones.) or have good airflow in the enclosure. Sad state of
affairs, but true.

Arno

.. ..k..

In article <4ut25mF19ig6iU1@mid.individual.net>,
Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>Previously ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>> Previously ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
>[...]
>>> > How difficult is it to remove the disk portion? It is one of those
>>> > Maxtor's OneTouch Family? It is one of these: http://tinyurl.com/yc2xgp
>>> > or
>>> > http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/Ma...Touch%20Family
>>> > ... I think it is about three years old? I guess it can be opened since
>>> > its warranty is over.
>
>>> No idea. I never bought one of these because of their _very_ bad
>>> reputation for failing often. Usually it is not difficult.
>
>> Yeah, I see a lot of them failing at my workplace. Looks like the one I
>> have is the newest victim. Do all Maxtor HDDs fail this easily or just
>> general external HDDs including the ones with enclosures for custom
>> HDDs?
>
>Maxtor HDDs are reliable if cooled well. For some reason the people
>designing these enclosures at Maxtor do not know that or do not care
>and the disks run hot and die early. It is really a systematic poblem.
>
>I see two options: Either gross incompetence or (criminal) intent
>with the idea that people will buy a new one possibly from Maxtor
>if the old one fails.
>



A third; only power the drive up when doing a backup ?

It won't get very hot, or for lots of hours.




--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Harrison for Congress in NY 13CD www.harrison06.com
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

.... ..b..

adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) writes:
> A third; only power the drive up when doing a backup ?
> It won't get very hot, or for lots of hours.

Backups involve having the drive very active for longish periods.
That's what makes drives get hot, from what I can tell. I have a 3.5"
160gb Seagate 7200.x drive (not sure of exact model) in a generic usb2
enclosure with a tiny fan. It runs cool when idling or slightly
active even when I run it overnight. But doing a backup, it's quite
warm after 10 minutes or so, and the backup takes much longer than
that.

.... ..gn..

Previously Al Dykes <adykes@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <4ut25mF19ig6iU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>Previously ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>> Previously ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
>>[...]
>>>> > How difficult is it to remove the disk portion? It is one of those
>>>> > Maxtor's OneTouch Family? It is one of these: http://tinyurl.com/yc2xgp
>>>> > or
>>>> > http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/Ma...Touch%20Family
>>>> > ... I think it is about three years old? I guess it can be opened since
>>>> > its warranty is over.
>>
>>>> No idea. I never bought one of these because of their _very_ bad
>>>> reputation for failing often. Usually it is not difficult.
>>
>>> Yeah, I see a lot of them failing at my workplace. Looks like the one I
>>> have is the newest victim. Do all Maxtor HDDs fail this easily or just
>>> general external HDDs including the ones with enclosures for custom
>>> HDDs?
>>
>>Maxtor HDDs are reliable if cooled well. For some reason the people
>>designing these enclosures at Maxtor do not know that or do not care
>>and the disks run hot and die early. It is really a systematic poblem.
>>
>>I see two options: Either gross incompetence or (criminal) intent
>>with the idea that people will buy a new one possibly from Maxtor
>>if the old one fails.
>>



> A third; only power the drive up when doing a backup ?

> It won't get very hot, or for lots of hours.

Well, yes. Would be sort of a ''dirty'' patch, but should work.

Arno

.... ..gn..

Previously Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) writes:
>> A third; only power the drive up when doing a backup ?
>> It won't get very hot, or for lots of hours.

> Backups involve having the drive very active for longish periods.
> That's what makes drives get hot, from what I can tell. I have a 3.5"
> 160gb Seagate 7200.x drive (not sure of exact model) in a generic usb2
> enclosure with a tiny fan. It runs cool when idling or slightly
> active even when I run it overnight. But doing a backup, it's quite
> warm after 10 minutes or so, and the backup takes much longer than
> that.

For short backups, it should be ok. For any longer activity, only
adequate cooling will work. Not that Seagates or Samsungs are quite
as sensitive to heat, but hot HDD are never good.

Arno

..lke.. ..enst..

<ANTant@zimage.com> wrote in message news:dpednV91IpeicxXYnZ2dnUVZ_rbinZ2d@mminternet.n et
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> > Previously ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
> > > Are there free programs like SpinRite that does well to do DEEP disk
> > > checking/testings on external hard disk drives like Maxtor's USB (160
> > > GB)?

> > SpinRite is outdated enough, that it really just does a conventional
> > surface scan these days.

Like it ever did something else.

> ONly the disk itself can do more via SMART.

> Interesting.

Nope, not when it comes from the babblebot.

>
>
> > > On two computers at work, I had it had it showed delay write
> > > errors. Then, Windows lose connections and I have to repower off and on
> > > to access the HDD again. I also tried different power and USB cables
> > > since many people use the same HDD. Also, it is not heat beause
> > > sometimes I get this problem after a few minutes after powering on from
> > > room temperature (not warm either).
>
> > > Chkdsk /f /r did not report anything. I don't think it does testing
> > > deep. Are there any tools that will do? I am trying HD Tune v2.52, but
> > > I don't think that's enough. I need something like SpinRite,

> > > but it done via DOS and doesn't do USB connections.

I'll bet it does if it can be seen in DOS. You need USB with Int13 support.
The same goes for Bart's Disktool. That will also run on Win9x but still needs
Int13 support. If you have Win9x check if the USB driver has Int13 support.

>
> > > Thank you in advance.

> > There is only one option that works and does more than a very
> > simple scan for defective sectors:

No it doesn't.

> > Remove the disk, connect it directly to an (S)ATA bus and do a long
> > SMART selftest.
> > Look at the SMART attributes and the SMART error log, before
> > and after the test. Unfortunately this is impossible over USB.
>
> How difficult is it to remove the disk portion? It is one of those
> Maxtor's OneTouch Family? It is one of these: http://tinyurl.com/yc2xgp
> or
>
http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/Ma...Touch%20Family
> ... I think it is about three years old? I guess it can be opened since
> its warranty is over.
>
> > > o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
> \ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
> ( )

..d ..e..

ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
> wrote:
>> Previously ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Previously ANTant@zimage.com wrote:
>>>>> Are there free programs like SpinRite that does well to do DEEP
>>>>> disk checking/testings on external hard disk drives like Maxtor's
>>>>> USB (160 GB)?
>
>>>> SpinRite is outdated enough, that it really just does a
>>>> conventional surface scan these days. ONly the disk itself can do
>>>> more via SMART.
>
>>> Interesting.
>
>
>>>>> On two computers at work, I had it had it showed delay write
>>>>> errors. Then, Windows lose connections and I have to repower off
>>>>> and on to access the HDD again. I also tried different power and
>>>>> USB cables since many people use the same HDD. Also, it is not
>>>>> heat beause sometimes I get this problem after a few minutes
>>>>> after powering on from room temperature (not warm either).
>
>>>>> Chkdsk /f /r did not report anything. I don't think it does
>>>>> testing deep. Are there any tools that will do? I am trying HD
>>>>> Tune v2.52, but I don't think that's enough. I need something
>>>>> like SpinRite, but it done via DOS and doesn't do USB
>>>>> connections.
>
>>>>> Thank you in advance.
>
>>>> There is only one option that works and does more than a very
>>>> simple scan for defective sectors: Remove the disk, connect it
>>>> directly to an (S)ATA bus and do a long SMART selftest.
>>>> Look at the SMART attributes and the SMART error log, before and
>>>> after the test. Unfortunately this is impossible over USB.
>
>>> How difficult is it to remove the disk portion? It is one of those
>>> Maxtor's OneTouch Family? It is one of these:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/yc2xgp or
>>> http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/Ma...Touch%20Family
>>> ... I think it is about three years old? I guess it can be opened
>>> since its warranty is over.
>
>> No idea. I never bought one of these because of their _very_ bad
>> reputation for failing often. Usually it is not difficult.

> Yeah, I see a lot of them failing at my workplace. Looks like the
> one I have is the newest victim. Do all Maxtor HDDs fail this easily

Nope, they arent too bad when adequately cooled.

> or just general external HDDs

Yes, that appears to be the problem, the design of the
case means that the drives dont get adequately cooled.

> including the ones with enclosures for custom HDDs?

Not sure what this is about, what 'custom HDDs' ?

..d ..e..

Folkert Rienstra <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote
> <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote
>> Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote
>>> ANTant@zimage.com wrote

>>>> Are there free programs like SpinRite that does well
>>>> to do DEEP disk checking/testings on external hard
>>>> disk drives like Maxtor's USB (160 GB)?

>>> SpinRite is outdated enough, that it really just
>>> does a conventional surface scan these days.

> Like it ever did something else.

Corse it did/does. It takes a hell of a lot longer with a drive which
has marginal sectors than a conventional surface scan does.

>>>> On two computers at work, I had it had it showed delay write
>>>> errors. Then, Windows lose connections and I have to repower off
>>>> and on to access the HDD again. I also tried different power and
>>>> USB cables since many people use the same HDD. Also, it is not
>>>> heat beause sometimes I get this problem after a few minutes after
>>>> powering on from room temperature (not warm either).

>>>> Chkdsk /f /r did not report anything. I don't think it does testing
>>>> deep. Are there any tools that will do? I am trying HD Tune v2.52,
>>>> but I don't think that's enough. I need something like SpinRite,

>>>> but it done via DOS and doesn't do USB connections.

> I'll bet it does if it can be seen in DOS.

Bet it doesnt.

> You need USB with Int13 support.

You dont know that it even uses that.

> The same goes for Bart's Disktool. That will also run on Win9x but still needs
> Int13 support. If you have Win9x check if the USB driver has Int13 support.

>>> There is only one option that works and does more
>>> than a very simple scan for defective sectors:

> No it doesn't.

Yes it does, most obviously with access to the SMART data.

>>> Remove the disk, connect it directly to an
>>> (S)ATA bus and do a long SMART selftest.

>>> Look at the SMART attributes and the SMART error log, before
>>> and after the test. Unfortunately this is impossible over USB.

>> How difficult is it to remove the disk portion? It is one
>> of those Maxtor's OneTouch Family? It is one of these:
>> http://tinyurl.com/yc2xgp or
>> http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/Ma...Touch%20Family
>> ... I think it is about three years old? I guess it can be opened
>> since its warranty is over.