Various Topics on Internet News

..

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 03:35:08 GMT, "Seancito" <nada@nada****ada.net>
wrote:

>>For instance, I believe it makes a great deal of sense to prosecute those
>>who know they are infected with HIV/AIDS yet continue to engage in ***ual
>>activity that can p*** the infection along. If that requires new law, so be
>>it. This is not your average ***ually communicated disease.
>
>I have a problem with the above view because it opens up a huge legal issue
>where precedents can be set for application to other cir***stances that may
>cause harm. It could extend to any behavior or action which results in the
>development of a life threatening illness. Think cancer from smoking. Think
>obesity and heart disease from McDonalds.

Both of which involve "potential victims" making choices; eating at
McDonalds or keeping company with someone who smokes. And the
information to know the dangers they court are readily available. The
exception being children.

That is not the case with HIV/AIDS if you *** partner has it but does
not inform you of that fact.


>HIV/AIDS is a slow killer, which
>you can't put a definite time frame on. What has to be done with HIV is to
>normalize it. Remove the stigma, and have testing for it commonly included
>in the healthcare of. everyone who engages in unprotected ***.

I agree that these are critically important things to accomplish.

>The big
>problem is the myths surrounding risk and transmission. Even someone in a
>monogamous relationship is at risk if their partner has *** away from the
>relationship. It's about trust. Not every transmission is a conscious act.

Yes, I know.

>And risk is not limited to homo***ual activity.

Yes, I know this as well.

--
cg

..

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 04:08:09 GMT, "Seancito" <nada@nada****ada.net>
wrote:

>I don't know where you live, but these places you mentioned have been closed
>for years in NYC. We now have lovely waterfront family friendly recreational
>areas and very expensive high rise apartments. The conditions you describe
>existed in the late 1970's. Come visit, NYC is like Seattle now.

I've lived and worked in NYC and I have to tell you it will never be
like Seattle. Old Salt has considerably more experience with NYC as
I'm sure you'll be hearing very shortly.

While I sympathize with your goals, in regards to HIV/AIDS, I believe
you need to be more open to the criticism you are receiving here. If
there ever was a disease which highlighted personal responsibility
HIV/AIDS is that disease yet you seem hell bent on denying that fact.

That does not obviate your points about ***ual partners forced into
***ual acts with individuals who are infected but that is not the news
you seem to believe it is. Nor is it new news that spouses contract
HIV/AIDS from their mates who have been catting around.

This news group is inhabited, for the most part, by men and women who
are very aware of many issues at a fair level of detail. These folks,
I would bet, also have the fortune of being above average when it
comes to native intelligence.

Unless you've been lurking for some time, you are too new here to
realize that. But you should be taking these things into account
when conversing here.

You are obviously committed to fighting HIV/AIDS and I congratulate
you for that dedication. You also, apparently, know a great deal
about this disease and its impact on individuals. But, you may also
be inside a vacuum tube. That is, a lot gets out but not much gets
in.

Let a little get in. It would help for you to say that far too often
people who are infecting others with HIV/AIDS have abdicated
responsibility for their actions. It would also help if you were to
say these individuals should be held accountable for their acts.

--
cg

..thr.. ..mps..

"Seancito" <nada@nada****ada.net> wrote in message
news:Y_uzc.68148$Gx4.6442@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I am sorry for your loss. I think you misread my post. I was responding to
> someone who was basically identifying AIDS as a gay disease.

In the United States, AIDS has been a larger problem in the gay community
than in other demographic groups. That is just a fact, not an attempt at
condemnation.

>...I work in a
> program foe women who are living with HIV/AIDS and some these women did
not
> set out to consciously contract HIV. They were not promiscuous, they were
in
> relationships. I don't know how old you are, but when AIDS broke out it
> followed a huge epidemic of herpes in this country in the late 1970's.

Very few people set out to spread AIDs or contract AIDs. In fact,
intentionally spreading AIDs is a crime. However, many people have AIDs due
to poor choices of their own or through ***ual contact with someone who was
making very poor health choices. Therefore, I think your attempt to justify
the slam at Reagan through this "logic" is disingenuous.

<snip a lot of issues for other threads, that I don't have the desire or
inclination to respond to tonight>

>...I never blamed Ronald
> Reagan for AIDS. I only remarked that his Administration was slow to
respond
> to it, and this is the one failure of his Presidency.

I strongly disagree. The Reagan Administration could not react to something
that was unknown and once it was identified, the Reagan Administration
worked very hard to make the public aware of the dangers of AIDS and to
educate the nation... all the while attempting to calm the often irrational
fears about the epidemic.

<snipped more extraneous issues>

>...There is an underlying thread in
> these posts that those who died "got what they deserved". We seem to be
> struggling to understand this disease. There is no blame. It is a virus.
> Nobody should get it. We need a cure!

I don't think that most posts were saying that those who died "got what they
deserved". I think the posts were saying that individuals engaging in risky
activities are more responsible for the consequences of their actions than
Ronald Reagan. I tend to agree with that.

Side note about misconceptions... I remember very clearly working in a local
children's hospital as a volunteer in the mid 80's and a young friend there
who had AIDs (acquired through a blood transfusion- he died about 2 years
later). His parents were constantly upset with the staff... claiming that
their son was being alienated from the rest of the children because of fears
that he would spread AIDs to them through casual contact. However, the
staff was really segregated the boy from the other children because they
feared the other children would spread an opportunistic infection to the
boy. It has always served as a reminder to me that how one interprets a
situation is often based on the preconceived notions one has of the
ignorance of others.

I don't doubt your sincerity and certainly do not condemn advocasy on behalf
of those who are frequently wrongly maligned and labeled. What I find
frustrating is the sarcastic use of a good man's death to beat the drum of a
cause that is not relevent to the man himself. For that, I say shame on you.



--
Regards of the NW,
Kathy

"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken
seriously". Hubert Humphrey

..o.. ..enn..

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 04:34:00 GMT, "Seancito" <nada@nada****ada.net> wrote:

:> Truth
:> be told, that period was a time when a great many people were having
:> unprotected *** because there was no other such thing. AIDS changed all
:> that.

I don't know how old you are, but that's utter bull ****. There were many
STDs around and anyone with a **** of sense knew to wear a condom, if you
were acting outside a monogomous relationship. AIDs merely upped the
stakes.

.. ..perczyns..

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 05:43:38 GMT, Floyd Drennon <fbdrennon@xobop.com>
wrote:

>There were many STDs around and anyone with a **** of sense knew to wear a condom, if you
>were acting outside a monogomous relationship. AIDs merely upped the stakes.

There you go again. Confusing Seancito with the facts.

.. ..perczyns..

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:07:45 -0400, "IgwanaRob"
<THEIgwanaRobATITUDE@myrealbox.com> wrote:

>Facts always seem to get in to way of idiots like this...

You mean Reagan *wasn't* responsible for the spread of AIDS??
Gasp! How dare you suggest it was due to promiscuous homo***ual ***?

..o.. ....

I was speaking of your comment of...

"Those who condemn history are forced to repeat it."

Which appears to be a variation of

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." [George
Santayana]


--

Hooda Gest
"The only thing I do immediately is procrastinate."




"Seancito" <nada@nada****ada.net> wrote in message
news:qXtzc.67822$Gx4.44074@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> The referenced quote was a press release from the named organization.
> "Hooda Gest" <Be@One_With.Calm> wrote in message
> news:Geszc.67279$Gx4.41585@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > When you get your history right, you can confidently state something
like
> > this. So far, you have not done so.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Hooda Gest
> > "In a New York minute, everything can change..."
> >
> > "Seancito" <nada@nada****ada.net> wrote in message
> > news:yUnzc.15403$Di3.2874@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > Those who condemn history are forced to repeat it.
> > > "cg" <cgrams007@{take-this-out}yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:a3urc05293gt7rt1s5mqp0hgu05e3glejr@4ax.com...
> > > > On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:56:06 GMT, "Seancito" <nada@nada****ada.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >National Day of Mourning
> > > > >Friday, June 11, 2004 - As the nation observes a day of mourning
for
> > > former
> > > > >President Ronald Reagan, we at Gay Men's Health Crisis stand
together
> > > with
> > > > >our brothers and sisters across the country to remember the
thousands
> > of
> > > > >men, women and children who have died of AIDS because of the
inaction
> > and
> > > > >silence of his Administration. While our doors will remain open to
> > serve
> > > > >our clients and provide the critical services on which they rely,
we
> > look
> > > to
> > > > >this day to remember those we have lost while reflecting on the
work
> > that
> > > > >remains to be done. On this day, we recommit ourselves to continue
to
> > > > >support people living with HIV, demand accountability from our
> leaders,
> > > > >fight for a world without AIDS, and not permit the return of the
> > silence
> > > > >that resulted in so many deaths.
> > > > >© 2004 Gay Men's Health Crisis
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You are wasting your time and hurting your effort by castigating
> > > > President Reagan. Get over it and move on with the really important
> > > > work that needs to be done in regards to HIV/AIDS.
> > > >
> > > > You references to President Reagan leave you open (justified or not)
> > > > to being perceived as a whiner and not a doer. Nobody wants to help
a
> > > > whiner.
> > > >
> > > > Presidential administrations have often failed in the eyes of those
> > > > whose lives have been so terribly affected by HIV/AIDS and other
> > > > illnesses to take effective action. The trick isn't to complain
> > > > (particularly about past administrations) but to get the needed
> > > > support in today's world.
> > > >
> > > > Go forth and spread the good word leaving behind the allegations of
> > > > past mis-deeds and bitterness.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > cg
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

..o.. ....

"Seancito" <nada@nada****ada.net> wrote in message
news:Wnuzc.67960$Gx4.55866@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Has this occurred to you? Not all transmission is by a conscious act. What
> about someone who is in a monogamous relationship, either gay or straight,
> who contracts the virus from their partner who is having *** outside of
the
> relationship? It is a question of trust. Many women are infected this way.

The partner who engages in *** outside of this relationship is the one who
should be condemned. It is that person who is spreading the disease, not the
unknowing partner who becomes infected.

You aren't paying attention to what is being said. There was a conscious act
by one of the two to not remain monogamous. In so doing, he put the other at
risk. And he did so consciously, knowing that there would be a risk.

People are also talking about those who know they are infected and continue
to engage in unprotected *** with partners who are unaware of the person's
HIV status. That is a conscious act.

It is a simple thing to stop this disease, or at least slow its rate of
infection down to a crawl, all it takes is for people to realize that their
own brief pleasure is less important than the lives of others.


--

Hooda Gest
"The only thing I do immediately is procrastinate."

..I..

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:56:06 GMT, "Seancito" <nada@nada****ada.net>
wrote:

>demand accountability from our leaders,

Actually, demanding accountability from practitioners would be a good
idea.

Quick tip : keep wiener out of butt.

Aids research spending in the US is wayyyy out of proportion.

..anci..

You are correct, Sir.
"Hooda Gest" <Be@One_With.Calm> wrote in message
news:5Ywzc.17208$Di3.2902@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I was speaking of your comment of...
>
> "Those who condemn history are forced to repeat it."
>
> Which appears to be a variation of
>
> "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." [George
> Santayana]
>
>
> --
>
> Hooda Gest
> "The only thing I do immediately is procrastinate."
>
>
>
>
> "Seancito" <nada@nada****ada.net> wrote in message
> news:qXtzc.67822$Gx4.44074@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > The referenced quote was a press release from the named organization.
> > "Hooda Gest" <Be@One_With.Calm> wrote in message
> > news:Geszc.67279$Gx4.41585@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > When you get your history right, you can confidently state something
> like
> > > this. So far, you have not done so.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Hooda Gest
> > > "In a New York minute, everything can change..."
> > >
> > > "Seancito" <nada@nada****ada.net> wrote in message
> > > news:yUnzc.15403$Di3.2874@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > > Those who condemn history are forced to repeat it.
> > > > "cg" <cgrams007@{take-this-out}yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:a3urc05293gt7rt1s5mqp0hgu05e3glejr@4ax.com...
> > > > > On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:56:06 GMT, "Seancito"
<nada@nada****ada.net>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >National Day of Mourning
> > > > > >Friday, June 11, 2004 - As the nation observes a day of mourning
> for
> > > > former
> > > > > >President Ronald Reagan, we at Gay Men's Health Crisis stand
> together
> > > > with
> > > > > >our brothers and sisters across the country to remember the
> thousands
> > > of
> > > > > >men, women and children who have died of AIDS because of the
> inaction
> > > and
> > > > > >silence of his Administration. While our doors will remain open
to
> > > serve
> > > > > >our clients and provide the critical services on which they rely,
> we
> > > look
> > > > to
> > > > > >this day to remember those we have lost while reflecting on the
> work
> > > that
> > > > > >remains to be done. On this day, we recommit ourselves to
continue
> to
> > > > > >support people living with HIV, demand accountability from our
> > leaders,
> > > > > >fight for a world without AIDS, and not permit the return of the
> > > silence
> > > > > >that resulted in so many deaths.
> > > > > >© 2004 Gay Men's Health Crisis
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You are wasting your time and hurting your effort by castigating
> > > > > President Reagan. Get over it and move on with the really
important
> > > > > work that needs to be done in regards to HIV/AIDS.
> > > > >
> > > > > You references to President Reagan leave you open (justified or
not)
> > > > > to being perceived as a whiner and not a doer. Nobody wants to
help
> a
> > > > > whiner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Presidential administrations have often failed in the eyes of
those
> > > > > whose lives have been so terribly affected by HIV/AIDS and other
> > > > > illnesses to take effective action. The trick isn't to complain
> > > > > (particularly about past administrations) but to get the needed
> > > > > support in today's world.
> > > > >
> > > > > Go forth and spread the good word leaving behind the allegations
of
> > > > > past mis-deeds and bitterness.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > cg
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>