Various Topics on Mercedes-Benz

02-13-2008

Michael Yeager wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:52:26 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> In article <rfmsj.26$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some cars made by XXXX (put in name of Korean, Japanese or American car
>>>> company) are really good, some are so-so and some are really bad. That's
>>>> true for all car companies. The proportion of bad American cars used to
>>>> be higher, but now, the American car companies are coming out with some
>>>> really good cars. And, the Japanese car companies made some really bad
>>>> cars, too.
>>> Joe Sixpack has $25,000 to spend on a car. That's a bunch of money to
>>> him, and he doesn't want to waste it.
>>>
>>> No matter what he does, he rolls the dice. So, what does he do?
>>>
>>> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
>>> a Russian tractory factory blush from embar***ment? Or does he buy a
>>> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
>>> odds are so incredibly against that?
>> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
>> record for the more recent cars is good.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Ford is recalling a ****LOAD of SUVs and vans (2006 and 2007 models)
> over problems that can result in the car burning to the ground. Seems
> they've had a lot of these over the past decade or so...

And Toyota has had a lot of recalls last year and the year before.

Please tell me the automaker who never makes any mistakes.

Jeff

02-13-2008

In article <uyosj.32$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> > Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
> > a Russian tractory factory blush from embar***ment? Or does he buy a
> > Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
> > odds are so incredibly against that?
>
> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
> record for the more recent cars is good.

But it's not NEARLY enough of a track record compared to the Japanese
nameplates--not nearly enough for Joe Sixpack to throw his hard earned
$25,000.

02-13-2008

"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fxosj.31$dh.15@trnddc01...
> R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>> Back in 1985, I hired a Buick Park Drive and a Pontiac Grand Am while in
>> the USA.
>>
>> The Buick was p***able, but with very sloppy suspension etc.
>>
>> The Grand Am was appalling, one of the worst cars I have ever driven and
>> certainly the worst new one.
>>
>> At the time back in the UK I was driving a 1983 BMW 735i. Obviously this
>> was better than most EU cars of that era, however the US cars of the time
>> were laughable in comparison.
>>
>> The trouble [for the US car industry] is that 25 years after that 735i
>> was built it is probably still better than most US cars sold today in
>> almost every department. Some of them are still laughable e.g. the
>> Chrysler PT Cruiser - poor drive, poor ride, poor handling, poor
>> performance, poor trim, poor seats, poor reliability and so on. You
>> would be better off in a ten year old base entry model 3 series than a
>> new one of these.
>
> A BMW 735i probably cost about 3 times as much money as most American cars
> of the era, too.
>
> You get what you pay for, especially considering the high cost of
> maintaining such a vehicle.

But you don't have to replace it after just a few years.

Obviously cars are / were not taxed as much in the USA and over there a BMW
was a premium import.

Where it was made it would be a lot cheaper.

The main point was that a car designed and made in Europe a generation ago
is still better than most US made cars now.

The corrolory would be that current EU m*** market cars (e.g. Ford Mondeo,
Vauxhall Vectra etc.) are better than their BMW market equivalents (3 and 5
series) of the mid 80's.

To put it another way the US is about 25 years behind Europe on car design,
build and quality control.

>
> jeff
>
> Jeff

02-13-2008

In article <6Cpsj.39$dh.10@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> >>> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
> >>> a Russian tractory factory blush from embar***ment? Or does he buy a
> >>> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
> >>> odds are so incredibly against that?
> >> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
> >> record for the more recent cars is good.
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >
> > Ford is recalling a ****LOAD of SUVs and vans (2006 and 2007 models)
> > over problems that can result in the car burning to the ground. Seems
> > they've had a lot of these over the past decade or so...
>
> And Toyota has had a lot of recalls last year and the year before.
>
> Please tell me the automaker who never makes any mistakes.

Please go back and READ what I wrote.

The ODDS of a serious mistake and/or a ****ty car and/or a car that's
worn out at 60K miles are HUGELY better on an American nameplate.
HUGELY better.

The odds of getting a solid, reliable car that will last a very long
time with small maintenance and repair bills, and small fuel bills, are
INCREDIBLY better for a Japanese nameplate.

So, you're Joe Sixpack--where do you put your hard-earned $25,000?

And don't spout back to me about "well, I found a lemon Toyota once...."
We're talking the HUGE difference in ODDS here. Inexecusably large
difference.

02-13-2008

buydomestic@usa.com wrote:

> On Feb 12, 8:41�am, Jeff <kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>buydomes...@usa.com wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>
>>>GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>>ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>
>>>The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>>they need, they are going to go under. �Consider buying an American
>>>car.
>>
>>>Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>>>Annual Auto Issue:
>>
>>>Buick Lacrosse
>>>Buick Lucerne
>>>Cadillac CTS
>>>Cadillac CTS-V
>>>Cadillac DTS
>>>Chevrolet HHR
>>>Chevrolet Impala
>>>Chevrolet Malibu
>>>Chevrolet Tahoe
>>>Chrysler 300
>>>Chrysler PT Cruiser
>>>Dodge Durango
>>>Ford Five Hundred
>>>Ford Focus
>>>Ford Freestyle
>>>Ford Fusion
>>>GMC Yukon
>>>Jeep Liberty
>>>Lincoln MKZ
>>>Lincoln Town Car
>>>Mercury Milan
>>>Mercury Montego
>>>Pontiac G6
>>>Pontiac Torrent
>>
>>What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America?
>
>
> Toyota and Honda ***emble cars all over the world, but the profits go
> back to Japan.

So?

They, (Honda/Toyota) build a far superior product.

JT

02-13-2008

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <uyosj.32$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
>>> a Russian tractory factory blush from embar***ment? Or does he buy a
>>> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
>>> odds are so incredibly against that?
>> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
>> record for the more recent cars is good.
>
> But it's not NEARLY enough of a track record compared to the Japanese
> nameplates--not nearly enough for Joe Sixpack to throw his hard earned
> $25,000.

Funny, the only carmaker to have increased sales last month was GM.

I guess you don't know Joe.

Jeff

02-13-2008

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> buydomestic@usa.com wrote:
>
>> On Feb 12, 8:41�am, Jeff <kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> buydomes...@usa.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>
>>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>
>>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>>> they need, they are going to go under. �Consider buying an American
>>>> car.
>>>
>>>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>>>> Annual Auto Issue:
>>>
>>>> Buick Lacrosse
>>>> Buick Lucerne
>>>> Cadillac CTS
>>>> Cadillac CTS-V
>>>> Cadillac DTS
>>>> Chevrolet HHR
>>>> Chevrolet Impala
>>>> Chevrolet Malibu
>>>> Chevrolet Tahoe
>>>> Chrysler 300
>>>> Chrysler PT Cruiser
>>>> Dodge Durango
>>>> Ford Five Hundred
>>>> Ford Focus
>>>> Ford Freestyle
>>>> Ford Fusion
>>>> GMC Yukon
>>>> Jeep Liberty
>>>> Lincoln MKZ
>>>> Lincoln Town Car
>>>> Mercury Milan
>>>> Mercury Montego
>>>> Pontiac G6
>>>> Pontiac Torrent
>>>
>>> What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America?
>>
>>
>> Toyota and Honda ***emble cars all over the world, but the profits go
>> back to Japan.
>
>
> So?
>
> They, (Honda/Toyota) build a far superior product.
>
> JT
>

They used to. But, the Michigan 3 also build good cars.

02-13-2008

In article <k2qsj.44$dh.25@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> > They, (Honda/Toyota) build a far superior product.
> >
> > JT
> >
>
> They used to. But, the Michigan 3 also build good cars.

The Michigan 3 have improved.

So have the Japanese nameplates.

Jeff, nothing will change simple facts. Your precious Michigan 3
created sucky products, and are now trying to play in a very mature
market of good cars.

When you're Joe Sixpack and plunking down your $25,000...

02-13-2008

In article <Z0qsj.42$dh.16@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> > But it's not NEARLY enough of a track record compared to the Japanese
> > nameplates--not nearly enough for Joe Sixpack to throw his hard earned
> > $25,000.
>
> Funny, the only carmaker to have increased sales last month was GM.
>
> I guess you don't know Joe.

You keep wanting to focus on things so narrowly, and hope that you can
convince someone that it's a trend.

"The only carmaker to have increased sales last month was GM." Last
month. Show me the last 20 years.

"I found a lemon Toyota once." Once. Show me the last 200 million
vehicles. GM, Ford, Chrysler--losers. Japanese nameplates--winners.

02-13-2008

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 05:46:07 -0800 (PST), buydomestic@usa.com wrote:

>On Feb 12, 8:41?am, Jeff <kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> buydomes...@usa.com wrote:
>> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>
>> > GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>> > ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>
>> > The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>> > they need, they are going to go under. ?Consider buying an American
>> > car.
>>
>> > Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>> > Annual Auto Issue:
>>
>> > Buick Lacrosse
>> > Buick Lucerne
>> > Cadillac CTS
>> > Cadillac CTS-V
>> > Cadillac DTS
>> > Chevrolet HHR
>> > Chevrolet Impala
>> > Chevrolet Malibu
>> > Chevrolet Tahoe
>> > Chrysler 300
>> > Chrysler PT Cruiser
>> > Dodge Durango
>> > Ford Five Hundred
>> > Ford Focus
>> > Ford Freestyle
>> > Ford Fusion
>> > GMC Yukon
>> > Jeep Liberty
>> > Lincoln MKZ
>> > Lincoln Town Car
>> > Mercury Milan
>> > Mercury Montego
>> > Pontiac G6
>> > Pontiac Torrent
>>
>> What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America?
>
>Toyota and Honda ***emble cars all over the world, but the profits go
>back to Japan.

Whereas the domestic manufacturers don't even have profits.

02-13-2008	#22
.... .. ..agnas..	Re: Consider buying American! In article <uyosj.32$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make > > a Russian tractory factory blush from embar***ment? Or does he buy a > > Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the > > odds are so incredibly against that? > > The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track > record for the more recent cars is good. But it's not NEARLY enough of a track record compared to the Japanese nameplates--not nearly enough for Joe Sixpack to throw his hard earned $25,000.

02-13-2008	#23
.. .... ..ayt..	Re: Consider buying American! "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:fxosj.31$dh.15@trnddc01... > R. Mark Clayton wrote: >> Back in 1985, I hired a Buick Park Drive and a Pontiac Grand Am while in >> the USA. >> >> The Buick was p*able, but with very sloppy suspension etc. >> >> The Grand Am was appalling, one of the worst cars I have ever driven and >> certainly the worst new one. >> >> At the time back in the UK I was driving a 1983 BMW 735i. Obviously this >> was better than most EU cars of that era, however the US cars of the time >> were laughable in comparison. >> >> The trouble [for the US car industry] is that 25 years after that 735i >> was built it is probably still better than most US cars sold today in >> almost every department. Some of them are still laughable e.g. the >> Chrysler PT Cruiser - poor drive, poor ride, poor handling, poor >> performance, poor trim, poor seats, poor reliability and so on. You >> would be better off in a ten year old base entry model 3 series than a >> new one of these. > > A BMW 735i probably cost about 3 times as much money as most American cars > of the era, too. > > You get what you pay for, especially considering the high cost of > maintaining such a vehicle. But you don't have to replace it after just a few years. Obviously cars are / were not taxed as much in the USA and over there a BMW was a premium import. Where it was made it would be a lot cheaper. The main point was that a car designed and made in Europe a generation ago is still better than most US made cars now. The corrolory would be that current EU m* market cars (e.g. Ford Mondeo, Vauxhall Vectra etc.) are better than their BMW market equivalents (3 and 5 series) of the mid 80's. To put it another way the US is about 25 years behind Europe on car design, build and quality control. > > jeff > > Jeff

02-13-2008	#24
.... .. ..agnas..	Re: Consider buying American! In article <6Cpsj.39$dh.10@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make > >>> a Russian tractory factory blush from embar*ment? Or does he buy a > >>> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the > >>> odds are so incredibly against that? > >> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track > >> record for the more recent cars is good. > >> > >> Jeff > > > > Ford is recalling a LOAD of SUVs and vans (2006 and 2007 models) > > over problems that can result in the car burning to the ground. Seems > > they've had a lot of these over the past decade or so... > > And Toyota has had a lot of recalls last year and the year before. > > Please tell me the automaker who never makes any mistakes. Please go back and READ what I wrote. The ODDS of a serious mistake and/or a **ty car and/or a car that's worn out at 60K miles are HUGELY better on an American nameplate. HUGELY better. The odds of getting a solid, reliable car that will last a very long time with small maintenance and repair bills, and small fuel bills, are INCREDIBLY better for a Japanese nameplate. So, you're Joe Sixpack--where do you put your hard-earned $25,000? And don't spout back to me about "well, I found a lemon Toyota once...." We're talking the HUGE difference in ODDS here. Inexecusably large difference.

02-13-2008	#25
..um.. ..Contrai..	Re: Consider buying American! buydomestic@usa.com wrote: > On Feb 12, 8:41�am, Jeff <kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>buydomes...@usa.com wrote: >> >>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/ >> >>>GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest >>>ever annual loss for a US automaker. >> >>>The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support >>>they need, they are going to go under. �Consider buying an American >>>car. >> >>>Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports >>>Annual Auto Issue: >> >>>Buick Lacrosse >>>Buick Lucerne >>>Cadillac CTS >>>Cadillac CTS-V >>>Cadillac DTS >>>Chevrolet HHR >>>Chevrolet Impala >>>Chevrolet Malibu >>>Chevrolet Tahoe >>>Chrysler 300 >>>Chrysler PT Cruiser >>>Dodge Durango >>>Ford Five Hundred >>>Ford Focus >>>Ford Freestyle >>>Ford Fusion >>>GMC Yukon >>>Jeep Liberty >>>Lincoln MKZ >>>Lincoln Town Car >>>Mercury Milan >>>Mercury Montego >>>Pontiac G6 >>>Pontiac Torrent >> >>What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America? > > > Toyota and Honda ***emble cars all over the world, but the profits go > back to Japan. So? They, (Honda/Toyota) build a far superior product. JT

02-13-2008	#28
.... .. ..agnas..	Re: Consider buying American! In article <k2qsj.44$dh.25@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote: > > They, (Honda/Toyota) build a far superior product. > > > > JT > > > > They used to. But, the Michigan 3 also build good cars. The Michigan 3 have improved. So have the Japanese nameplates. Jeff, nothing will change simple facts. Your precious Michigan 3 created sucky products, and are now trying to play in a very mature market of good cars. When you're Joe Sixpack and plunking down your $25,000...

02-13-2008	#21
....	Re: Consider buying American! Michael Yeager wrote: > On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:52:26 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >>> In article <rfmsj.26$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Some cars made by XXXX (put in name of Korean, Japanese or American car >>>> company) are really good, some are so-so and some are really bad. That's >>>> true for all car companies. The proportion of bad American cars used to >>>> be higher, but now, the American car companies are coming out with some >>>> really good cars. And, the Japanese car companies made some really bad >>>> cars, too. >>> Joe Sixpack has $25,000 to spend on a car. That's a bunch of money to >>> him, and he doesn't want to waste it. >>> >>> No matter what he does, he rolls the dice. So, what does he do? >>> >>> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make >>> a Russian tractory factory blush from embar*ment? Or does he buy a >>> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the >>> odds are so incredibly against that? >> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track >> record for the more recent cars is good. >> >> Jeff > > Ford is recalling a **LOAD of SUVs and vans (2006 and 2007 models) > over problems that can result in the car burning to the ground. Seems > they've had a lot of these over the past decade or so... And Toyota has had a lot of recalls last year and the year before. Please tell me the automaker who never makes any mistakes. Jeff

02-13-2008	#26
....	Re: Consider buying American! Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: > In article <uyosj.32$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >>> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make >>> a Russian tractory factory blush from embar***ment? Or does he buy a >>> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the >>> odds are so incredibly against that? >> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track >> record for the more recent cars is good. > > But it's not NEARLY enough of a track record compared to the Japanese > nameplates--not nearly enough for Joe Sixpack to throw his hard earned > $25,000. Funny, the only carmaker to have increased sales last month was GM. I guess you don't know Joe. Jeff

02-13-2008	#27
....	Re: Consider buying American! Grumpy AuContraire wrote: > > > buydomestic@usa.com wrote: > >> On Feb 12, 8:41�am, Jeff <kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> buydomes...@usa.com wrote: >>> >>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/ >>> >>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest >>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker. >>> >>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support >>>> they need, they are going to go under. �Consider buying an American >>>> car. >>> >>>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports >>>> Annual Auto Issue: >>> >>>> Buick Lacrosse >>>> Buick Lucerne >>>> Cadillac CTS >>>> Cadillac CTS-V >>>> Cadillac DTS >>>> Chevrolet HHR >>>> Chevrolet Impala >>>> Chevrolet Malibu >>>> Chevrolet Tahoe >>>> Chrysler 300 >>>> Chrysler PT Cruiser >>>> Dodge Durango >>>> Ford Five Hundred >>>> Ford Focus >>>> Ford Freestyle >>>> Ford Fusion >>>> GMC Yukon >>>> Jeep Liberty >>>> Lincoln MKZ >>>> Lincoln Town Car >>>> Mercury Milan >>>> Mercury Montego >>>> Pontiac G6 >>>> Pontiac Torrent >>> >>> What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America? >> >> >> Toyota and Honda ***emble cars all over the world, but the profits go >> back to Japan. > > > So? > > They, (Honda/Toyota) build a far superior product. > > JT > They used to. But, the Michigan 3 also build good cars.

02-13-2008	#30
..rd.. ..Gr..	Re: Consider buying American! On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 05:46:07 -0800 (PST), buydomestic@usa.com wrote: >On Feb 12, 8:41?am, Jeff <kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> buydomes...@usa.com wrote: >> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/ >> >> > GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest >> > ever annual loss for a US automaker. >> >> > The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support >> > they need, they are going to go under. ?Consider buying an American >> > car. >> >> > Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports >> > Annual Auto Issue: >> >> > Buick Lacrosse >> > Buick Lucerne >> > Cadillac CTS >> > Cadillac CTS-V >> > Cadillac DTS >> > Chevrolet HHR >> > Chevrolet Impala >> > Chevrolet Malibu >> > Chevrolet Tahoe >> > Chrysler 300 >> > Chrysler PT Cruiser >> > Dodge Durango >> > Ford Five Hundred >> > Ford Focus >> > Ford Freestyle >> > Ford Fusion >> > GMC Yukon >> > Jeep Liberty >> > Lincoln MKZ >> > Lincoln Town Car >> > Mercury Milan >> > Mercury Montego >> > Pontiac G6 >> > Pontiac Torrent >> >> What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America? > >Toyota and Honda ***emble cars all over the world, but the profits go >back to Japan. Whereas the domestic manufacturers don't even have profits.

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