Various Topics on Mercedes-Benz

..chiro.. ..B%O%A%m%/..

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 05:37:57 -0800, buydomestic wrote:

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>
> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest ever
> annual loss for a US automaker.
>
> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support they
> need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American car.
>
> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
> Annual Auto Issue:

There are a couple problems with American car manufacturers in general,
and GM in particular:

The workforce gets bored easily. Bored workers do fair work.

The Management is more interested in making shareholders happy than
customers.

And the biggest failure of the system: even if your people are building
the cars the best they can, the car is no better than the quality of the
parts that go into it.

This is where the Japanese really kick ***. The parts are far more
reliable than their American counterparts. Remember what happened when GM
sytarted making Corollas (Geo Prizm)? They put Delco parts into them! The
highest failure components on a Prizm are the alternator and the radio.
Smart people who realize they have a Corolla in disguise go to a Toyota
dealer and buy a rebuilt Denso alternator and drive for the next 150,000+
miles without even thinking about it.

Once GM starts thinking Customer over shareholder, and quality parts
rather than cheap parts, GM will again regain it's composure and move back
to the top. And I don't mean in sales. You give people a large enough
incentive, they'll buy the car no matter how crummy. I ALMOST went to look
at a Cobalt, because a new one was $3,000 less than the Scion I bought
with 11,500 miles. Bit based on the reliability figures of the Cavalier
the Cobalt replaced, the idea left my head in 5 minutes.

If GM can get their parts manufacturers to approach the quality and
longevity of Denso, Hitachi, etc, GM might once again become #1 in
QUALITY, and not just pushing cars to rental agencies to boost sales...

....

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 05:37:57 -0800, buydomestic wrote:
>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>
>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest ever
>> annual loss for a US automaker.
>>
>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support they
>> need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American car.
>>
>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>> Annual Auto Issue:
>
> There are a couple problems with American car manufacturers in general,
> and GM in particular:
>
> The workforce gets bored easily. Bored workers do fair work.

How does this affect GM workers more than other workers? Or Ford and
Chrysler workers more than the workers for the foreign automakers?

> The Management is more interested in making shareholders happy than
> customers.

Chrysler does not have shareholders.

> And the biggest failure of the system: even if your people are building
> the cars the best they can, the car is no better than the quality of the
> parts that go into it.

This is true for US-made Hondas and Toyotas, too.

> This is where the Japanese really kick ***. The parts are far more
> reliable than their American counterparts. Remember what happened when GM
> sytarted making Corollas (Geo Prizm)? They put Delco parts into them! The
> highest failure components on a Prizm are the alternator and the radio.
> Smart people who realize they have a Corolla in disguise go to a Toyota
> dealer and buy a rebuilt Denso alternator and drive for the next 150,000+
> miles without even thinking about it.
>
> Once GM starts thinking Customer over shareholder, and quality parts
> rather than cheap parts, GM will again regain it's composure and move back
> to the top. And I don't mean in sales. You give people a large enough
> incentive, they'll buy the car no matter how crummy. I ALMOST went to look
> at a Cobalt, because a new one was $3,000 less than the Scion I bought
> with 11,500 miles. Bit based on the reliability figures of the Cavalier
> the Cobalt replaced, the idea left my head in 5 minutes.
>
> If GM can get their parts manufacturers to approach the quality and
> longevity of Denso, Hitachi, etc, GM might once again become #1 in
> QUALITY, and not just pushing cars to rental agencies to boost sales...

GM and Ford have decreased sales to rental fleets.

Jeff

..m ....

Jeff wrote:
> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 05:37:57 -0800, buydomestic wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>
>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>> ever
>>> annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>
>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>> they
>>> need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American car.
>>>
>>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>>> Annual Auto Issue:
>>
>> There are a couple problems with American car manufacturers in general,
>> and GM in particular:
>>
>> The workforce gets bored easily. Bored workers do fair work.
>
> How does this affect GM workers more than other workers? Or Ford and
> Chrysler workers more than the workers for the foreign automakers?
>
>> The Management is more interested in making shareholders happy than
>> customers.
>
> Chrysler does not have shareholders.
>
>> And the biggest failure of the system: even if your people are building
>> the cars the best they can, the car is no better than the quality of the
>> parts that go into it.
>
> This is true for US-made Hondas and Toyotas, too.

the difference is the spec the auto maker writes for the parts. honda
and toyota specs are very high. domestic specs are way lower.



>
>> This is where the Japanese really kick ***. The parts are far more
>> reliable than their American counterparts. Remember what happened when GM
>> sytarted making Corollas (Geo Prizm)? They put Delco parts into them! The
>> highest failure components on a Prizm are the alternator and the radio.
>> Smart people who realize they have a Corolla in disguise go to a Toyota
>> dealer and buy a rebuilt Denso alternator and drive for the next 150,000+
>> miles without even thinking about it.
>> Once GM starts thinking Customer over shareholder, and quality parts
>> rather than cheap parts, GM will again regain it's composure and move
>> back
>> to the top. And I don't mean in sales. You give people a large enough
>> incentive, they'll buy the car no matter how crummy. I ALMOST went to
>> look
>> at a Cobalt, because a new one was $3,000 less than the Scion I bought
>> with 11,500 miles. Bit based on the reliability figures of the Cavalier
>> the Cobalt replaced, the idea left my head in 5 minutes.
>>
>> If GM can get their parts manufacturers to approach the quality and
>> longevity of Denso, Hitachi, etc, GM might once again become #1 in
>> QUALITY, and not just pushing cars to rental agencies to boost sales...
>
> GM and Ford have decreased sales to rental fleets.
>
> Jeff

..g ..gee.co...

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:54:54 -0800, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:

>Jeff wrote:
>> Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 05:37:57 -0800, buydomestic wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>>
>>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>>> ever
>>>> annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>>
>>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>>> they
>>>> need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American car.
>>>>
>>>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>>>> Annual Auto Issue:
>>>
>>> There are a couple problems with American car manufacturers in general,
>>> and GM in particular:
>>>
>>> The workforce gets bored easily. Bored workers do fair work.
>>
>> How does this affect GM workers more than other workers? Or Ford and
>> Chrysler workers more than the workers for the foreign automakers?
>>
>>> The Management is more interested in making shareholders happy than
>>> customers.
>>
>> Chrysler does not have shareholders.
>>
>>> And the biggest failure of the system: even if your people are building
>>> the cars the best they can, the car is no better than the quality of the
>>> parts that go into it.
>>
>> This is true for US-made Hondas and Toyotas, too.
>
>the difference is the spec the auto maker writes for the parts. honda
>and toyota specs are very high. domestic specs are way lower.
>

Well that's obvious seeing the **** coming from Detroit nowadays.
>
>
>>
>>> This is where the Japanese really kick ***. The parts are far more
>>> reliable than their American counterparts. Remember what happened when GM
>>> sytarted making Corollas (Geo Prizm)? They put Delco parts into them! The
>>> highest failure components on a Prizm are the alternator and the radio.
>>> Smart people who realize they have a Corolla in disguise go to a Toyota
>>> dealer and buy a rebuilt Denso alternator and drive for the next 150,000+
>>> miles without even thinking about it.
>>> Once GM starts thinking Customer over shareholder, and quality parts
>>> rather than cheap parts, GM will again regain it's composure and move
>>> back
>>> to the top. And I don't mean in sales. You give people a large enough
>>> incentive, they'll buy the car no matter how crummy. I ALMOST went to
>>> look
>>> at a Cobalt, because a new one was $3,000 less than the Scion I bought
>>> with 11,500 miles. Bit based on the reliability figures of the Cavalier
>>> the Cobalt replaced, the idea left my head in 5 minutes.
>>>
>>> If GM can get their parts manufacturers to approach the quality and
>>> longevity of Denso, Hitachi, etc, GM might once again become #1 in
>>> QUALITY, and not just pushing cars to rental agencies to boost sales...
>>
>> GM and Ford have decreased sales to rental fleets.
>>
>> Jeff
--

Sir Hugh of Bognor

The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen
hsg@h-gee.co.uk
Bognor Regis, W.Sus***, England, UK

..retwe.. ..l.c..

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:54:54 -0800, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:

>the difference is the spec the auto maker writes for the parts. honda
>and toyota specs are very high. domestic specs are way lower.
>


A bold statement, do you have any facts to back it up?

..m ....

gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:54:54 -0800, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>> the difference is the spec the auto maker writes for the parts. honda
>> and toyota specs are very high. domestic specs are way lower.
>>
>
>
> A bold statement, do you have any facts to back it up?


er, it's kind of obvious to anyone that opens the hood occasionally.

but since you don't want to take my word for it, here's an experiment
you can do for yourself. buy a spring loaded punch like this:

http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/11464

go to a junkyard.

use your punch on the cam lobes of say a taurus. note size of indent mark.

now, try the same exercise on a camry. comparable vehicles.

then tell us what you observed.

..chiro.. ..B%O%A%m%/..

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:47:06 +0000, Jeff wrote:

> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 05:37:57 -0800, buydomestic wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>
>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>
>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>> they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
>>> car.
>>>
>>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>>> Annual Auto Issue:
>>
>> There are a couple problems with American car manufacturers in general,
>> and GM in particular:
>>
>> The workforce gets bored easily. Bored workers do fair work.
>
> How does this affect GM workers more than other workers? Or Ford and
> Chrysler workers more than the workers for the foreign automakers?


The others have a tendancy to move them around more...

>
>> The Management is more interested in making shareholders happy than
>> customers.
>
> Chrysler does not have shareholders.

And the Chryslers I have had were better than any GMs we had.

Interesting to see how this plays out. If Chrysler can get over the
Butt-Uglies!

>
>> And the biggest failure of the system: even if your people are building
>> the cars the best they can, the car is no better than the quality of the
>> parts that go into it.
>
> This is true for US-made Hondas and Toyotas, too.

My US made Honda was GREAT! I was leery of buying a US made Honda, but
where I live JH vins are rare. I was amazingly surprised. Of course, a lot
of the parts caem from Japan.

However, the fit wasn't quite up to Japanese standards. One fender was off
a bit, and some inside trim was off. Big deal! The car went 220,000
trouble-free miles.

>
>> This is where the Japanese really kick ***. The parts are far more
>> reliable than their American counterparts. Remember what happened when
>> GM sytarted making Corollas (Geo Prizm)? They put Delco parts into them!
>> The highest failure components on a Prizm are the alternator and the
>> radio. Smart people who realize they have a Corolla in disguise go to a
>> Toyota dealer and buy a rebuilt Denso alternator and drive for the next
>> 150,000+ miles without even thinking about it.
>>
>> Once GM starts thinking Customer over shareholder, and quality parts
>> rather than cheap parts, GM will again regain it's composure and move
>> back to the top. And I don't mean in sales. You give people a large
>> enough incentive, they'll buy the car no matter how crummy. I ALMOST
>> went to look at a Cobalt, because a new one was $3,000 less than the
>> Scion I bought with 11,500 miles. Bit based on the reliability figures
>> of the Cavalier the Cobalt replaced, the idea left my head in 5 minutes.
>>
>> If GM can get their parts manufacturers to approach the quality and
>> longevity of Denso, Hitachi, etc, GM might once again become #1 in
>> QUALITY, and not just pushing cars to rental agencies to boost sales...
>
> GM and Ford have decreased sales to rental fleets.

But GMs incetives get better and better. The guy whose place I took on the
Dell job wants to sell the car he was using for work, because he bought a
new Silverado. He was looking at a Tacoma, but the Chevy dealer bent
himself in half to sell the truck, coming in $2,000 under Toyota's price.




>
> Jeff

..i.. .... ..

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 22:37:32 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@ae86.gts>
wrote:

>My US made Honda was GREAT! I was leery of buying a US made Honda, but
>where I live JH vins are rare. I was amazingly surprised. Of course, a lot
>of the parts caem from Japan.
>
>However, the fit wasn't quite up to Japanese standards. One fender was off
>a bit, and some inside trim was off. Big deal! The car went 220,000
>trouble-free miles.

My US Made Nissan sucked. Ford split the plant/line 50/50 with them.
It showed.

..chiro.. ..B%O%A%m%/..

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 23:24:10 +0000, still just me wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 22:37:32 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>
>>My US made Honda was GREAT! I was leery of buying a US made Honda, but
>>where I live JH vins are rare. I was amazingly surprised. Of course, a
>>lot of the parts caem from Japan.
>>
>>However, the fit wasn't quite up to Japanese standards. One fender was
>>off a bit, and some inside trim was off. Big deal! The car went 220,000
>>trouble-free miles.
>
> My US Made Nissan sucked. Ford split the plant/line 50/50 with them. It
> showed.


If it's any consolation, my Japan made Nissan sucked, too...

'90 240SX. Awesome car if it had been built right.