Various Topics on Paddle

..rt.. ..ist..

In article <wDZok.10205$kh2.9381@bignews3.bellsouth.net>,
Lee Bell <pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>ComandanteBanana wrote
>
>> Well, I'm not going to speak in defense of the sardine in their
>> eternal quest to survive the big fish...
>
>Glad to hear it since you do not appear to be competent to defend your
>position on the issues you did address.
>
>> The issue here is, WHY A KAYAK OR CANOE MUST GIVE THE RIGHT OF
>> WAY TO THE MOTORBOATS?
>
>Here is is in a nutshell. It's called "The Rule of Tonage." I outweigh you
>by . . . well, by a lot of times. In an encounter between my boat and
>yours, yours, and you, will be crushed. If you aren't, you'll be turned
>into hamburger, or fish chum if you prefer, by the propellers on the back,
>that are turned, slow or fast, by more than 300 horsepower each. It's call
>survival. Ignoring it is commonly referred to as testing Darwin's theory.
>They have awards, issued poshumously, for thost that do.
>
>Other than that, here's another anwer. You don't have to give right of way.
>Generally speaking, non powered vessels, operated with a bit of common
>sense, have the right of way over powered ones.

With modifications.

If you are in a defined VTC area the vessels in the "motorway" have
right of way to anything crossing. These are clearly marked on any
chart. Dates from the Copenhagen protocol of 1859, with later extensions.
Flag states have authority over the VTC, even in international waters.
(Was never ratified by the confederate states, though).

The VTC operator is king. Listen to VHF on the VTC channels to get
updates.

Ferries and other officially scheduled traffic comes next.

Then there are three conflicting sets of rules.

1) The "seamanship" rules.

* Everyone yield for special signs, like dive flag, trawler, etc.
* Planes under landing and takeoff have next right of way.
* Overtaking boat yields for the overtaken.
* Propelled (including rowboats) yield for sailboats and planes.
* Planes yield for sail (until Jun 1st 2006 this was the other way around)
* Engine yield for non-engine
* Sailboats with the wind from port yield for other sailboats with the
wind from Starboard.
* Sailboats yield for other sailboats with a higher angle into the wind.

2) The "useful" rules.

* Boats carrying payload have first rights.
* More payload => more right of way
* You shall not disturb a vessel that cannot manouver as well as you can.

3) Biggest carries the day.

* I am bigger than you are.

Interesting point is that you must yield for planes, even if they
are overtaking. With sea planes it can be hard to distinguish the
transition from plane to vessel some times.

As of June 1st 2006, military or SAR vessels with blinking blue
lights have first priority over all.

>> Every weekend the intracostal waterway of Miami becomes a parade of
>> motorboats of all sorts, from the very big (the owners of this town)
>> to the very small (the noisy jet skis), often driven by intoxicated
>> drivers (I guess you call them "drivers," though seldom they are
>> accountable to the standards as vehicle drivers, like DUI), and almost
>> always running (or should I say "flying"?) up and down (again, with no
>> speed limit restrictions like regular drivers). So the task of
>> crossing these sea highways by paddle becomes something like a duck
>> crossing the hunting grounds, and you are the sitting duck...

But, if convicted of wrongdoing they can have the book thrown at them.
DUI, reckless driving, endangering ship traffic, violations of a score
of SOLAS regulations etc. We have a couple of cases each year where
skippers end up with a year or more of hard time.

>They're called Captains or pilots, not drivers. If they intoxicated, report
>them. There are, in fact, laws controlling that very much like those for
>automobile driers. There are speed limits posted all over the place and
>quite a few that apply even when not posted. On top of it all, there are
>maximum wake and other requirements you've not bothered to notice.
>
>Crossing the channel, whether by paddle or by motorboat, is a lot like
>crossing any other highway. You would be ill advised to pull out right in
>front of a boat operated by a captain with more knowledge and experience
>than your appear to have, operating at a legal speed, not intoxicated, just
>like you would be ill advised to push your skateboard out in front of
>traffic traveling at the speed limit on I-95. You're the one entering the
>channel. You're the one responsible for doing it safely. Imagine that.

Big difference between VTC and non-VTC areas. VTC is more like a
runway for planes. You really _should_ listen to the traffic controller,
even in a canoe. Especially in a canoe.

We have done many dives in VTC areas; they are usually very cooperative,
and we have to follow a given timeslot, and report in as all other VTC
parties do.

>> But the ocean is also hunting ground. The other day (it was weekday,
>> hardly any boats out there), I went to out in my tandem kayak, which I
>> chose as bright as it could be (sunrise) with the paddles to match
>> (they could be more visible than the kayak itself), and out of nowhere
>> came this boat that p***ed us right in front, so much so that my
>> partner stopped paddling. The ocean was absolutely flat and it was a
>> nice sunny day, so the driver must have chosen to make it a close
>> call...
>
>You don't know that at all. There are rules for who has the right of way on
>the ocean as well. Have you bothered to research them?
>
>While it is possible that the boater chose to make it a close call, that's
>not certain at all, particularly if he did not change course. For all you
>know, he would have been on autopilot or, possibly, following a GPS course
>from one point to the next. Your ***umption that he chose to bother you is
>a bit off the mark.

I can confirm than going off autopilot is a definate h***le. If he
was following a marked sea lane he would probably think of you as a
nuisance; and have the law on his side.

>I will grant you that it would have been nice for him to give you a bit more
>room. I make a habit of doing that for vessels small enough that going
>behind them, through their wake, is not a problem while forcing them to go
>through mine might be. On the other hand, if you were paddling into his
>path, you also had the option to give yourself more room.

Also, signal your intensions by making course adjustments if you have to,
and do it early. BTW, the really large vessels run anti-collision systems,
and have to log collision alarms. If they behave like a**h*les you can
buzz them a little by triggering those alarms. You can do so at a safe
distance, you just need to set a colliding course, and stay there for
a minute or two. The radar and anti-collision systems will pick you up.

-- mrr

..ngOfTheAp..

On Aug 19, 3:25*pm, Morten Reistad <fi...@last.name> wrote:

> 1) The *"seamanship" rules.
>
> * ** Everyone yield for special signs, like dive flag, trawler, etc.

I do have a dive flag that use when snorkeling, but just got a
"protest" red flag, which I learned later was for sailboat races...

Anyway I intend to fly it for two purposes: 1. to be seen, and 2. to
protest against the Law of the Jungle, currently in practice
everywhere in the seas.

The question is, WHO'S LIABLE IF I DO GET HIT?

I'm afraid the laws are made to fit the big ones, of course...

HOW THE LAW WORKS... FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE LION
One day the King of the Jungle, tired of being called AUTHORITARIAN,
gathered the most cunning animals in the kingdom, chief among them the
Foxes, and told them: "It's mighty unjust that I am not recognized for
what I am. You know full well that the best of my S****S, after you,
go to the Little Animals... Well, I want you to write LAWS, so from
now on it'll be them, and not me, who would rule over this God chosen
kingdom..."

After a few months of hard deliberations (and a few "private parties"
and "business trips") the Foxes (now turned politicians) returned with
a long, long book of laws written in a language so hard to understand
to the Little Animals that they thought it was old Greek. After
translation, it started like this: "The animals with a mane will be
treated like kings; the animals with paws and teeth will be above the
Laws; and the animals who will represent the interests of the Little
Animals, us, will be granted a raise in benefits and status... Of
course, ALL FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION will be considered ILLEGAL, and
will result in the Lion eating the Little Animal..." (Moral: The trick
is in the law.)

..amers.. ..ail.c..

On Aug 20, 1:36 pm, KingOfTheApes <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The question is, WHO'S LIABLE IF I DO GET HIT?

Don't know, but we're all going to chip in and buy him a beer.

Steve

..ngOfTheAp..

On Aug 21, 11:18 am, "cramer...@gmail.com" <cramer...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Aug 20, 1:36 pm, KingOfTheApes <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > The question is, WHO'S LIABLE IF I DO GET HIT?
>
> Don't know, but we're all going to chip in and buy him a beer.
>
> Steve

You must one of those who celebrate the Law of the Jungle.

I bet you got one of those bumper stickers that say, "We support our
troops."

..e.. ..x

In article
<9dc6da00-1ad6-4893-8a5f-cfab2ea44df4@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
KingOfTheApes <comandante.banana@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Aug 21, 11:18 am, "cramer...@gmail.com" <cramer...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Aug 20, 1:36 pm, KingOfTheApes <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The question is, WHO'S LIABLE IF I DO GET HIT?
> >
> > Don't know, but we're all going to chip in and buy him a beer.
> >
> > Steve
>
> You must one of those who celebrate the Law of the Jungle.
>
> I bet you got one of those bumper stickers that say, "We support our
> troops."

At least they don't whine at extended, exhaustive length, looking for
someone else to blame.

..ngOfTheAp..

On Aug 21, 2:10*pm, Steve Hix <se...@NOSPAMspeakeasy.netINVALID>
wrote:
> In article
> <9dc6da00-1ad6-4893-8a5f-cfab2ea44...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> *KingOfTheApes <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 21, 11:18 am, "cramer...@gmail.com" <cramer...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On Aug 20, 1:36 pm, KingOfTheApes <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > The question is, WHO'S LIABLE IF I DO GET HIT?
>
> > > Don't know, but we're all going to chip in and buy him a beer.
>
> > > Steve
>
> > You must one of those who celebrate the Law of the Jungle.
>
> > I bet you got one of those bumper stickers that say, "We support our
> > troops."
>
> At least they don't whine at extended, exhaustive length, looking for
> someone else to blame.

They do blame somebody else: Hussein, WMDs, terrorists...

But I'm talking about the safety of those very activities (green,
healthy) that should be promoted, not be left to the Law of the
Jungle.

Hey, fast motorboats sound to me like WMDs.

..ngOfTheAp..

(This is a contribution by the very same person who sold me the last
kayak. Reporting from the watery jungle)

Flex 029 wrote:
hi folks, first time here .. met Sr. Commandate Banana at my shop ..

one way of dealing with this problem is to NOT paddle in these areas
on weekends.
when i go on any given week-DAY, there’s usually nobody around -
EXCEPT for all that damn trash~


Howdy Flex, good to see you here so we can discuss how best to survive
out there. I totally agree with you, and in fact I stay away from the
waterways on weekends. The weekends belong to the predators, so to
speak.

I also canoe at night (which you told me you do too), which not makes
for far fewer motorboats, but also hides the mountains of trash (yes,
including batteries and mattresses) left behind by the said
motorboats. (I have a bright kayak for daylight, and camouflage canoe
with proper lights for night time.)

As you know, the beautiful kayak I’ve got from you is as bright as
sunrise (that’s the color), as well as the lights and flag I’m getting
from you. So if the superfast, superbig boats don’t see me is because
their drivers (I deny them “captain” status) are superdrunk and
superhigh.

Hey, we’ve developed the same strategy for survival! Actually it was
developed by the early mammals at the time the dinosaurs ruled the
earth.

That’s kind of metaphorical, isn’t it?

..ngOfTheAp..

wpns4l wrote:
"this thread is crazy lol. stories of lions and the jungle.

do yourself a favor and carry a hand held uhf radio or something and
if you see people, motorboat or not, acting like ***es call the police/
coast guard."

Hey, you seem to be ready for “the jungle” in that picture. Either you
have big guns… or have a banana to go in there (I have to tell the
metaphorical meaning of it).

Anyway, I do carry a cell phone, and I ***ume they don’t see me. But
I’m not sure that’s good or bad because then I get all stressed out
over the damn boats, and it defeats the purpose of the kayak, which is
to relax. In other words, I ignore them.

So, I go back to one of the favorite slogans of the revolution,

“Whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.”

..e ....

> I also canoe at night (which you told me you do too), which not makes
> for far fewer motorboats, but also hides the mountains of trash (yes,
> including batteries and mattresses) left behind by the said
>motorboats. (I have a bright kayak for daylight, and camouflage canoe
>with proper lights for night time.)

In all my years of boating and kayaking, I've never, ever seen a battery
floating by. As far as I know, boaters aren't really well known for dumping
their mattresses in the water either.

Perhaps you'd like to explain why you crossposted your complaints about
boaters in the Intracoastal to rec.scuba and a UK group, all of whom are
extremely unlikely to even know what the Intracoastal is, let alone care
about boats in it.

Lee

..e ....

> Hey, fast motorboats sound to me like WMDs.

BFD. I kids bicycle probably sounds like them to you too.