Various Topics on Subaru

..lbe.. ..i..

I frequently end up with a flat battery in my Forester05, despite the
garage test rig reporting that the alternator and battery are in
perfect condition.

What am I doing wrong ? I am driving without the heater fan or
sidelights on. If you run the battery low by parking with the lights
on (say), there is no way the battery will ever recover unless you
drive with the fan on. (I am not joking). Short journeys or long.

Charging lead-acid batteries is not rocket science, all you do is put
14.6v across the terminals until the charge current shows it to be
fully charged, then maintain a 14.2v trickle charge. Try plugging a
voltmeter into your cigar lighter socket and watch what happens on
your lovely Subaru, then compare it to any other make.

.... ..a..

Gilbert Smith wrote:
> I frequently end up with a flat battery in my Forester05, despite the
> garage test rig reporting that the alternator and battery are in
> perfect condition.
>
> What am I doing wrong ? I am driving without the heater fan or
> sidelights on. If you run the battery low by parking with the lights
> on (say), there is no way the battery will ever recover unless you
> drive with the fan on. (I am not joking). Short journeys or long.
>
> Charging lead-acid batteries is not rocket science, all you do is put
> 14.6v across the terminals until the charge current shows it to be
> fully charged, then maintain a 14.2v trickle charge. Try plugging a
> voltmeter into your cigar lighter socket and watch what happens on
> your lovely Subaru, then compare it to any other make.
Hmm,
Sounds like you have bad battery. Checked each cell with hydrometer?
Probably one cell is sick.

.... ..urtrig..

Gilbert Smith wrote:

> Charging lead-acid batteries is not rocket science, all you do is put
> 14.6v across the terminals until the charge current shows it to be

Hi,

Have you been charging the battery externally when it's gone flat, or
simply relying on the alternator to do it?

If you're suffering from a weak or sick battery (see Tony's note on a
bad cell), you're putting extra strain on the alternator. I've seen more
than one alternator "give up" on a bad battery: the owner puts in a new
battery and hardly any time later, it's flat cuz his alternator's gone
bad as well. It's sorta "chicken and egg" diagnosing the "real" culprit!

I've also had good results when buying new batteries if I put a trickle
charger on overnight the first night the battery's in the vehicle.
Again, the idea is to minimize the strain on the alternator in case the
battery has been sitting on the shelf a while and has self-drained a
small amount.

Rick

..lbe.. ..i..

Rick Courtright <rcourtright@dslextreme.com> wrote:

>Gilbert Smith wrote:
>
>> Charging lead-acid batteries is not rocket science, all you do is put
>> 14.6v across the terminals until the charge current shows it to be
>
>Hi,
>
>Have you been charging the battery externally when it's gone flat, or
>simply relying on the alternator to do it?
>
>If you're suffering from a weak or sick battery (see Tony's note on a
>bad cell), you're putting extra strain on the alternator. I've seen more
>than one alternator "give up" on a bad battery: the owner puts in a new
>battery and hardly any time later, it's flat cuz his alternator's gone
>bad as well. It's sorta "chicken and egg" diagnosing the "real" culprit!
>
>I've also had good results when buying new batteries if I put a trickle
>charger on overnight the first night the battery's in the vehicle.
>Again, the idea is to minimize the strain on the alternator in case the
>battery has been sitting on the shelf a while and has self-drained a
>small amount.
>
>Rick
>

As I said in my first paragraph, the Subaru test rig reports both
battery and alternator in perfect condition. I have also tried a new
battery because I initially thought it was the obvious solution.

The problem is simple, the system does not hold the battery teminals
above 14.1v (as per battery manufacturer's recomendation) if you do
not keep the blower or the lights on.

The Impreza08 car they lent me performs in a very similar fashion, but
differs in that it keeps returning to charging (14.6v) every two
minutes, whereas the Forester05 gives up after a couple of bursts.

The real question is why does the voltage remain permanently in the
14.2 to 14.7v range when I do have the fan switched on ?? It is
nothing to do with the extra load requirement, the facts are simple -
over 14.1v = current into the battery, below this = no charging taking
place, despite the battery being only 50% charged.

..lbe.. ..i..

Rick Courtright <rcourtright@dslextreme.com> wrote:

>Gilbert Smith wrote:
>
>> Charging lead-acid batteries is not rocket science, all you do is put
>> 14.6v across the terminals until the charge current shows it to be
>
>Hi,
>
>Have you been charging the battery externally when it's gone flat, or
>simply relying on the alternator to do it?
>
>If you're suffering from a weak or sick battery (see Tony's note on a
>bad cell), you're putting extra strain on the alternator. I've seen more
>than one alternator "give up" on a bad battery: the owner puts in a new
>battery and hardly any time later, it's flat cuz his alternator's gone
>bad as well. It's sorta "chicken and egg" diagnosing the "real" culprit!
>
>I've also had good results when buying new batteries if I put a trickle
>charger on overnight the first night the battery's in the vehicle.
>Again, the idea is to minimize the strain on the alternator in case the
>battery has been sitting on the shelf a while and has self-drained a
>small amount.
>
>Rick
>
I have charged it on the bench on each occasion it went flat.

.... .. ..c.. ..x..

Gilbert Smith wrote:

> Rick Courtright <rcourtright@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Gilbert Smith wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Charging lead-acid batteries is not rocket science, all you do is put
>>>14.6v across the terminals until the charge current shows it to be
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Have you been charging the battery externally when it's gone flat, or
>>simply relying on the alternator to do it?
>>
>>If you're suffering from a weak or sick battery (see Tony's note on a
>>bad cell), you're putting extra strain on the alternator. I've seen more
>>than one alternator "give up" on a bad battery: the owner puts in a new
>>battery and hardly any time later, it's flat cuz his alternator's gone
>>bad as well. It's sorta "chicken and egg" diagnosing the "real" culprit!
>>
>>I've also had good results when buying new batteries if I put a trickle
>>charger on overnight the first night the battery's in the vehicle.
>>Again, the idea is to minimize the strain on the alternator in case the
>>battery has been sitting on the shelf a while and has self-drained a
>>small amount.
>>
>>Rick
>>
>
> I have charged it on the bench on each occasion it went flat.

Although I don't hang out at Forester specific forums, I'd expect this
to be a widely reported problem if ALL Foresters exhibit it. So, I'd
have to say the shop has not done proper/enough troubleshooting.

Did you buy the car used? Is the V belt in good condition/tight?

I agree that charging batteries is not rocket science, but there are a
LOT of odd ways that system can fail in a car. My daughter's 95 maxima
has an oil leak that very gradually destroyed her alternator. While
doing so, we had many very strange problems with intermittent 'flat'
batteries. And batteries (for cars) can not tolerate many cycles to 0
volts before their longevity is also compromised. That created another
level of confusion. Add to that some parts of the country are so hot
average battery lifespan is well under 3 years....

if you frequently need to idle for long periods of time with accessories
on, investigate using a smaller alternator pulley.

I dunno

Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

..b ..b..

I read this one yesterday and thought this guy is full of it cause things
don't add up.
I have a built in volt meter on my car and it reads just fine.
Your cig lighter may be corroded inside or something like that.
Also, it sounds like you may have a bad connection somewhere in your battery
terminals.
Ever take them off and s**** the old lead off the contact areas and replace
them? I put a few drops of motor oil on top of each one and the car rattles
it all over to protect them from corrosion after cleaning.

I say this, because it sounds like your battery is not getting charged,
that's why it drains so fast.

Oh, and all I can think of is the fan is causing enough current to p*** the
bad connection to cause it to also let it charge, so that can make some
sense too.


--
Bob Noble
http://www.sonic.net/bnoble
"Gilbert Smith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:nhoe94lgtp6gsuuol56at79bn3jgb0s7b1@4ax.com...
>I frequently end up with a flat battery in my Forester05, despite the
> garage test rig reporting that the alternator and battery are in
> perfect condition.
>
> What am I doing wrong ? I am driving without the heater fan or
> sidelights on. If you run the battery low by parking with the lights
> on (say), there is no way the battery will ever recover unless you
> drive with the fan on. (I am not joking). Short journeys or long.
>
> Charging lead-acid batteries is not rocket science, all you do is put
> 14.6v across the terminals until the charge current shows it to be
> fully charged, then maintain a 14.2v trickle charge. Try plugging a
> voltmeter into your cigar lighter socket and watch what happens on
> your lovely Subaru, then compare it to any other make.

.... ..urtrig..

Gilbert Smith wrote:

> The problem is simple, the system does not hold the battery teminals
> above 14.1v (as per battery manufacturer's recomendation) if you do
> not keep the blower or the lights on.

Hi,

I had an early water-cooled VW that wouldn't charge above about 14-14.1
volts, w/ attendant short battery life. Turns out VW sourced their
alternators that year from Motorola, and the following year from Bosch
cuz of recurring similar problems w/ the Motorola units. I replaced the
alternator w/ a Bosch, and the problem went away. I'm gonna wonder out
loud if Subaru may have gotten a "bad" batch of alternators? The dealer
told me the same thing you were told: "It all checks out ok." Well, then
why do I have flat batteries? "Uhh..."

Also, bad grounds were once problematic on a lot of German (and English)
cars--they'd have the ground wire screwed down onto a painted surface
instead of having bare metal to bare metal contact. Have you checked the
connection where your battery ground wire cable meets the body/ch***is?
I'm also gonna wonder out loud if your fan's providing enough ground to
allow proper voltage output? I'm not sure exactly how various
alternators are wired up, but it seems from observation some are more
tolerant of the voltage range they'll work w/ than others.

Otherwise, it's still a mystery to me.

Rick

..i..

Intermittent loose/cracked battery cell?
It's happened to me and had everyone stumped
for a while.
Worth checking.
-C-



"Bob Noble" <bnoble@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:48994216$0$17173$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>I read this one yesterday and thought this guy is full of it cause things
> don't add up.
> I have a built in volt meter on my car and it reads just fine.
> Your cig lighter may be corroded inside or something like that.
> Also, it sounds like you may have a bad connection somewhere in your
> battery
> terminals.
> Ever take them off and s**** the old lead off the contact areas and
> replace
> them? I put a few drops of motor oil on top of each one and the car
> rattles
> it all over to protect them from corrosion after cleaning.
>
> I say this, because it sounds like your battery is not getting charged,
> that's why it drains so fast.
>
> Oh, and all I can think of is the fan is causing enough current to p***
> the
> bad connection to cause it to also let it charge, so that can make some
> sense too.
>
>
> --
> Bob Noble
> http://www.sonic.net/bnoble
> "Gilbert Smith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:nhoe94lgtp6gsuuol56at79bn3jgb0s7b1@4ax.com...
>>I frequently end up with a flat battery in my Forester05, despite the
>> garage test rig reporting that the alternator and battery are in
>> perfect condition.
>>
>> What am I doing wrong ? I am driving without the heater fan or
>> sidelights on. If you run the battery low by parking with the lights
>> on (say), there is no way the battery will ever recover unless you
>> drive with the fan on. (I am not joking). Short journeys or long.
>>
>> Charging lead-acid batteries is not rocket science, all you do is put
>> 14.6v across the terminals until the charge current shows it to be
>> fully charged, then maintain a 14.2v trickle charge. Try plugging a
>> voltmeter into your cigar lighter socket and watch what happens on
>> your lovely Subaru, then compare it to any other make.
>

..lbe.. ..i..

Carl 1 Lucky Texan <alckytxn@swbell.not> wrote:

>Gilbert Smith wrote:
>
>> Rick Courtright <rcourtright@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Gilbert Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Charging lead-acid batteries is not rocket science, all you do is put
>>>>14.6v across the terminals until the charge current shows it to be
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Have you been charging the battery externally when it's gone flat, or
>>>simply relying on the alternator to do it?
>>>
>>>If you're suffering from a weak or sick battery (see Tony's note on a
>>>bad cell), you're putting extra strain on the alternator. I've seen more
>>>than one alternator "give up" on a bad battery: the owner puts in a new
>>>battery and hardly any time later, it's flat cuz his alternator's gone
>>>bad as well. It's sorta "chicken and egg" diagnosing the "real" culprit!
>>>
>>>I've also had good results when buying new batteries if I put a trickle
>>>charger on overnight the first night the battery's in the vehicle.
>>>Again, the idea is to minimize the strain on the alternator in case the
>>>battery has been sitting on the shelf a while and has self-drained a
>>>small amount.
>>>
>>>Rick
>>>
>>
>> I have charged it on the bench on each occasion it went flat.
>
>Although I don't hang out at Forester specific forums, I'd expect this
>to be a widely reported problem if ALL Foresters exhibit it. So, I'd
>have to say the shop has not done proper/enough troubleshooting.
>
>Did you buy the car used? Is the V belt in good condition/tight?
>
>I agree that charging batteries is not rocket science, but there are a
>LOT of odd ways that system can fail in a car. My daughter's 95 maxima
>has an oil leak that very gradually destroyed her alternator. While
>doing so, we had many very strange problems with intermittent 'flat'
>batteries. And batteries (for cars) can not tolerate many cycles to 0
>volts before their longevity is also compromised. That created another
>level of confusion. Add to that some parts of the country are so hot
>average battery lifespan is well under 3 years....
>
>if you frequently need to idle for long periods of time with accessories
>on, investigate using a smaller alternator pulley.
>
>I dunno
>
>Carl

Thanks for all the suggestions in this thread, everything is pristine
in the engine compartment, earth lead tight, etc, and the fault is
identical with a new battery (I tried that first, but have now swapped
back).

The crux of the matter is that the charging system behaves perfectly
if I have either the fan or the side lights on (eg: voltage above 14.1
at all times).

Secondly, an Impreza08 they lent me behaves in a very similar manner
wrt lights/fan on or off. The only difference was that without the fan
or lights it did go down to 12.8v quite regularly but kept trying
again, whereas mine stays off charge after the first five minutes.

The alternator is controlled by the ECU, hence the "smart", but I
reckon they had a software bug for a couple of years.